enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

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enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

MarcWeber
Hi list,

I'm missing some features on lib.haxe.org.

Having a central place to list HaXe code would be nice.
However not all projects do always fit the release cycle.

So what about extending lib.haxe.org:

- to allow registering svn/git/mercurial/.. repositories

- write an interface to list the dev branches of those repositories

- use Xapian or gnu idutils or such to index all the source files.

  I'd like to have a way to find all projects defining some matrix
  features. I"m looking for a light 3d Matrix.

  Of course I could write it up myself.. But why duplicate work?

- maybe a source preview / file list

- maybe add a way to add comments.

- allow marking libraries as targeting some targets only.
  This way PHP only libraries can be filtered easily if you want to
  target Neko etc.

svn, git, mercurial repositories could be updated on a daily basis.

Eg Stax is not listed yet - I don't know whether it has stable releases
at all yet.

Thoughts, suggestions, comments?

Nicolas, would you accept patches to lib.haxe.org? (Are you the
maintainer of lib.haxe.org?) If so which of those listed features do you
like?

Which os is lib.haxe.org running on?

Would using gnu idutils as "indexing" be fine? I'd prefer it because I
expect it to just work and its easy to setup.

Marc Weber

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

jlm@justinfront.net
I tried to install an online Git repository on my server with an  
interface although Hg would be interesting as well, but I have to say  
both the python and ruby(rails) approaches were not simple to install  
and I am a firm believer in simple installs.  It would be great if  
there was a haXe version of gitorous or similar with an aim to keep it  
really simple and functional, then it would not be such a big step to  
integrate that with haxelib, so that users could host there own  
repository but link to haxelib.


On 6 Sep 2010, at 15:43, Marc Weber wrote:

> aXe code would be nice.
> However not all projects do always fit the release cycle.
>
> So what about extending lib.haxe.org:
>
> - to allow registering svn/git/mercurial/.. repositories


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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

MarcWeber
Excerpts from [hidden email]'s message of Mon Sep 06 16:55:16 +0200 2010:
> I tried to install an online Git repository on my server with an  
> interface although Hg would be interesting as well, but I have to say  
> both the python and ruby(rails) approaches were not simple to install  
> and I am a firm believer in simple installs.  It would be great if  
> there was a haXe version of gitorous or similar with an aim to keep it  
> really simple and functional, then it would not be such a big step to  
> integrate that with haxelib, so that users could host there own  
> repository but link to haxelib.

I didn't talk about installing the libraries. I only talked about
- browsing libraries
- find the library you want

Sometimes you have to patch a library anyway.

Installing by hg, git, svn etc is easy.

use git clone, hg checkout in ~/haxe-libs/name/9999/ or such.

Gitorious is totally different. Its purpose is project hosting only.
You can't ask all authors to host their projects at place X.
But we can ask them to add a reference to lib.haxe.org (or do so
ourselves). An example would be away3d. It contains a haxe branch.

I (as user) want a way to mark a library as superseded by another one.
Authors can add more comments if they feel differently.

And you're right: hosting projects (with group managament etc).. that's
a totally different task. I'd like to keep gitorious, github, launchpad
etc filling that role.

I want way to find out quickly whether there are existing libraries
which can get my job done - or whether I have to start writing one from
scratch.

Marc Weber

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nicolas Cannasse
In reply to this post by MarcWeber
Le 06/09/2010 16:43, Marc Weber a écrit :

> Hi list,
>
> I'm missing some features on lib.haxe.org.
>
> Having a central place to list HaXe code would be nice.
> However not all projects do always fit the release cycle.
>
> So what about extending lib.haxe.org:
>
> - to allow registering svn/git/mercurial/.. repositories
[...]

haxelib is a system to distribute libraries, it is not a source
repository. If you want to synchronize your sources with haxelib, add a
commit script in your repository system to build & submit a haxelib
package. If not, please explain what you're trying to achieve.

Please note that haxelib can be used on the client to set a "dev"
version to any specific directory (which can be a GIT/SVN/... checkout),
use "haxelib dev <project> <dir>" for that.

Best,
Nicolas

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Franco Ponticelli
Please note that haxelib can be used on the client to set a "dev" version to any specific directory (which can be a GIT/SVN/... checkout), use "haxelib dev <project> <dir>" for that.

About that, you can use this feature only on existing projects (projects that have at least one formal release). It could be very handy being able to use this feature for projects that are still under development and thus do not have yet a release on lib.haxe.org. This can be worked around creating a fake project but it is not very nice.

Franco

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nicolas Cannasse
Le 07/09/2010 13:52, Franco Ponticelli a écrit :

>     Please note that haxelib can be used on the client to set a "dev"
>     version to any specific directory (which can be a GIT/SVN/...
>     checkout), use "haxelib dev <project> <dir>" for that.
>
>
> About that, you can use this feature only on existing projects (projects
> that have at least one formal release). It could be very handy being
> able to use this feature for projects that are still under development
> and thus do not have yet a release on lib.haxe.org
> <http://lib.haxe.org>. This can be worked around creating a fake project
> but it is not very nice.

You can install a project that has not yet been submitted with haxelib
"test". But yes, maybe patching haxelib client to automatically create
the project if if does not exists when running "dev" would be nice.

Nicolas

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nicolas Cannasse
Le 07/09/2010 13:55, Nicolas Cannasse a écrit :

> Le 07/09/2010 13:52, Franco Ponticelli a écrit :
>> Please note that haxelib can be used on the client to set a "dev"
>> version to any specific directory (which can be a GIT/SVN/...
>> checkout), use "haxelib dev <project> <dir>" for that.
>>
>>
>> About that, you can use this feature only on existing projects (projects
>> that have at least one formal release). It could be very handy being
>> able to use this feature for projects that are still under development
>> and thus do not have yet a release on lib.haxe.org
>> <http://lib.haxe.org>. This can be worked around creating a fake project
>> but it is not very nice.
>
> You can install a project that has not yet been submitted with haxelib
> "test". But yes, maybe patching haxelib client to automatically create
> the project if if does not exists when running "dev" would be nice.

Done.

Nicolas

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Franco Ponticelli
Done.

Amazing, thank you ;)

--
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

MarcWeber
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse
Excerpts from Nicolas Cannasse's message of Tue Sep 07 13:37:42 +0200 2010:
> haxelib is a system to distribute libraries, it is not a source
> repository. If you want to synchronize your sources with haxelib, add a
> commit script in your repository system to build & submit a haxelib
> package. If not, please explain what you're trying to achieve.

I want lib.haxe.org to list all packages (even if they are in "dev" state).
I want lib.haxe.org answer questions like "which packages contain matrix
code". This could be done by creating tag files or running grep or gnu
id utils on source. Maybe I a log of changes I can browse - or which
could be send by email once a week (or within 2 weeks).

> Please note that haxelib can be used on the client to set a "dev"
> version to any specific directory (which can be a GIT/SVN/... checkout),
> use "haxelib dev <project> <dir>" for that.

I'd like haxelib to do the hard work (checkout the project) for me.
You're right - its no hard work. But its work I can automate.

I'd like to preview code online.

Eg have a look at http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html
Click on any package. You'll find a page with a headline called
"modules". clicking on the links below the headline you can browse the
source. Yes - probably this requires checking out each project once.

I want me (maybe the community as well :) find the library I'm looking
for fastest.

Briefly: I'd like to have both: distribution of libraries - and being
able to search, browse and read libraries online.

I'd like to add a info field saying for which targets a library was
written for.

Marc Weber

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

John A. De Goes

Your goals are precisely inline with Haxed, which stores repo information to aid automated checkouts, stores target platforms (as well as arbitrary user fields), and has a decent jQuery based front-end (though it needs improvements).

Regards,

John

On Sep 7, 2010, at 7:17 AM, Marc Weber wrote:

> Excerpts from Nicolas Cannasse's message of Tue Sep 07 13:37:42 +0200 2010:
>> haxelib is a system to distribute libraries, it is not a source
>> repository. If you want to synchronize your sources with haxelib, add a
>> commit script in your repository system to build & submit a haxelib
>> package. If not, please explain what you're trying to achieve.
>
> I want lib.haxe.org to list all packages (even if they are in "dev" state).
> I want lib.haxe.org answer questions like "which packages contain matrix
> code". This could be done by creating tag files or running grep or gnu
> id utils on source. Maybe I a log of changes I can browse - or which
> could be send by email once a week (or within 2 weeks).
>
>> Please note that haxelib can be used on the client to set a "dev"
>> version to any specific directory (which can be a GIT/SVN/... checkout),
>> use "haxelib dev <project> <dir>" for that.
>
> I'd like haxelib to do the hard work (checkout the project) for me.
> You're right - its no hard work. But its work I can automate.
>
> I'd like to preview code online.
>
> Eg have a look at http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html
> Click on any package. You'll find a page with a headline called
> "modules". clicking on the links below the headline you can browse the
> source. Yes - probably this requires checking out each project once.
>
> I want me (maybe the community as well :) find the library I'm looking
> for fastest.
>
> Briefly: I'd like to have both: distribution of libraries - and being
> able to search, browse and read libraries online.
>
> I'd like to add a info field saying for which targets a library was
> written for.
>
> Marc Weber
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org


--
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nicolas Cannasse
In reply to this post by MarcWeber
Le 07/09/2010 15:17, Marc Weber a écrit :
> Excerpts from Nicolas Cannasse's message of Tue Sep 07 13:37:42 +0200 2010:
>> haxelib is a system to distribute libraries, it is not a source
>> repository. If you want to synchronize your sources with haxelib, add a
>> commit script in your repository system to build&  submit a haxelib
>> package. If not, please explain what you're trying to achieve.
>
> I want lib.haxe.org to list all packages (even if they are in "dev" state).
[...]

Thanks for detailed information on what you're trying to achieve.

I can propose that right know you write your own service that uses the
lib.haxe.org remoting API (the one that the haxelib client uses). You
can have a look at the sources in haxe/std/tools/haxelib. This should
enable you to retrieve all the haxelib projects, then process the source
code any way you want to reach your goals.

As soon as you don't require the haxelib user to give more infos about
his project than it is needed right now, this will be entirely
compatible with haxelib.

We'll see later if your service can be either hosted on haxe server or
directly integrated on lib.haxe.org ;)

Nicolas

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

MarcWeber
> Thanks for detailed information on what you're trying to achieve.
I'm fine with your suggestion. If I get that to a usable shape - maybe
you can add a link as experimental user interface later then.

I've seen the haxelib sources. I also have seen the server sources
somewhere.

My goal was making you (and the list) aware that I don't intend to
create a second lib.haxe.org in the long run. For testing and
development that's fine.

Thanks.

Marc Weber

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

MarcWeber
In reply to this post by John A. De Goes
Excerpts from John A. De Goes's message of Tue Sep 07 15:43:09 +0200 2010:
> Your goals are precisely inline with Haxed, which stores repo
> information to aid automated checkouts, stores target platforms (as
> well as arbitrary user fields), and has a decent jQuery based
> front-end (though it needs improvements).

Link?  Thanks

Marc Weber

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

John A. De Goes

Haxed is on github: http://github.com/blackdog66/bdog-debut

Regards,

John

On Sep 7, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Marc Weber wrote:

> Excerpts from John A. De Goes's message of Tue Sep 07 15:43:09 +0200 2010:
>> Your goals are precisely inline with Haxed, which stores repo
>> information to aid automated checkouts, stores target platforms (as
>> well as arbitrary user fields), and has a decent jQuery based
>> front-end (though it needs improvements).
>
> Link?  Thanks
>
> Marc Weber
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org


--
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nathan
sorry, think it's:
   http://github.com/blackdog66/haxed

:)

John A. De Goes wrote:

> Haxed is on github: http://github.com/blackdog66/bdog-debut
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
> On Sep 7, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Marc Weber wrote:
>
>> Excerpts from John A. De Goes's message of Tue Sep 07 15:43:09 +0200 2010:
>>> Your goals are precisely inline with Haxed, which stores repo
>>> information to aid automated checkouts, stores target platforms (as
>>> well as arbitrary user fields), and has a decent jQuery based
>>> front-end (though it needs improvements).
>> Link?  Thanks
>>
>> Marc Weber
>>
>> --
>> haXe - an open source web programming language
>> http://haxe.org
>
>


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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

John A. De Goes

Oops, you're right. Thanks! Anyone interested in improving Haxed (writing tests, writing documentation, enhancing front-end, or adding support for Mercurial/SVN/etc. on the backend), contact myself or Blackdog and we'll make you a contributor.

Regards,

John

On Sep 7, 2010, at 8:29 AM, Nathan wrote:

> sorry, think it's:
>  http://github.com/blackdog66/haxed
>
> :)
>
> John A. De Goes wrote:
>> Haxed is on github: http://github.com/blackdog66/bdog-debut
>> Regards,
>> John
>> On Sep 7, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Marc Weber wrote:
>>> Excerpts from John A. De Goes's message of Tue Sep 07 15:43:09 +0200 2010:
>>>> Your goals are precisely inline with Haxed, which stores repo
>>>> information to aid automated checkouts, stores target platforms (as
>>>> well as arbitrary user fields), and has a decent jQuery based
>>>> front-end (though it needs improvements).
>>> Link?  Thanks
>>>
>>> Marc Weber
>>>
>>> --
>>> haXe - an open source web programming language
>>> http://haxe.org
>
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org


--
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nicolas Cannasse
In reply to this post by MarcWeber
Le 07/09/2010 16:20, Marc Weber a écrit :

>> Thanks for detailed information on what you're trying to achieve.
> I'm fine with your suggestion. If I get that to a usable shape - maybe
> you can add a link as experimental user interface later then.
>
> I've seen the haxelib sources. I also have seen the server sources
> somewhere.
>
> My goal was making you (and the list) aware that I don't intend to
> create a second lib.haxe.org in the long run. For testing and
> development that's fine.

I think that the best approach is indeed not to multiply/fork the
community tools. I understand that I can't handle of of them by myself
and I'm ready to give people more control over them as soon as they
agree to keep backward compatibility.

For instance, a lot of services can be built over lib.haxe.org API
without modifying the website or client. These services can later be
merged into the official website if they are used by the community.

We had some talks about having haxed replacing haxelib but there was too
many changes required for it to become a drop'in haxelib replacement.

Nicolas

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Andy Li
BTW, will the source of lib.haxe.org, which I mean the website, be available?
If it is opensource and easy to setup, we can try improve it on our sides and submit patches.

regards,
Andy

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Nicolas Cannasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
Le 07/09/2010 16:20, Marc Weber a écrit :

Thanks for detailed information on what you're trying to achieve.
I'm fine with your suggestion. If I get that to a usable shape - maybe
you can add a link as experimental user interface later then.

I've seen the haxelib sources. I also have seen the server sources
somewhere.

My goal was making you (and the list) aware that I don't intend to
create a second lib.haxe.org in the long run. For testing and
development that's fine.

I think that the best approach is indeed not to multiply/fork the community tools. I understand that I can't handle of of them by myself and I'm ready to give people more control over them as soon as they agree to keep backward compatibility.

For instance, a lot of services can be built over lib.haxe.org API without modifying the website or client. These services can later be merged into the official website if they are used by the community.

We had some talks about having haxed replacing haxelib but there was too many changes required for it to become a drop'in haxelib replacement.

Nicolas


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

John A. De Goes
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse

I don't think it's realistic to maintain backward compatibility forever. When compared to haxelib, Haxed is enormously powerful, concise, and easy to use. This comes at a cost -- the cost of not being backward compatible. (Fortunately, the command-line interface is mostly the same -- it's the internals that have changed.)

In my opinion, Nicolas, your time is better spent maintaining the compiler. There are tons of bugs listed in the bug tracker, and you have many great features planned for HaXe. You're uniquely qualified to do this work, but your time is consumed by your day job, taking care of the little one, and maintaining all the numerous projects that you started (such as haxelib).

A build and package management tool is something the community can maintain. You should let us take this one over. If you're willing to host Haxed on haxe.org, we can do the rest, including porting over the existing libraries.

This lets you focus on the important stuff and lets the community charge forward in improving the build and package management tool, without having to bottleneck bug fixes and features through you.

What do you say? :-)

Regards,

John

On Sep 7, 2010, at 8:39 AM, Nicolas Cannasse wrote:

> Le 07/09/2010 16:20, Marc Weber a écrit :
>>> Thanks for detailed information on what you're trying to achieve.
>> I'm fine with your suggestion. If I get that to a usable shape - maybe
>> you can add a link as experimental user interface later then.
>>
>> I've seen the haxelib sources. I also have seen the server sources
>> somewhere.
>>
>> My goal was making you (and the list) aware that I don't intend to
>> create a second lib.haxe.org in the long run. For testing and
>> development that's fine.
>
> I think that the best approach is indeed not to multiply/fork the community tools. I understand that I can't handle of of them by myself and I'm ready to give people more control over them as soon as they agree to keep backward compatibility.
>
> For instance, a lot of services can be built over lib.haxe.org API without modifying the website or client. These services can later be merged into the official website if they are used by the community.
>
> We had some talks about having haxed replacing haxelib but there was too many changes required for it to become a drop'in haxelib replacement.
>
> Nicolas
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org


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Re: enhancing lib.haxe.org experience

Nathan
John A. De Goes wrote:
> I don't think it's realistic to maintain backward compatibility forever. When compared to haxelib, Haxed is enormously powerful, concise, and easy to use. This comes at a cost -- the cost of not being backward compatible. (Fortunately, the command-line interface is mostly the same -- it's the internals that have changed.)
>
> In my opinion, Nicolas, your time is better spent maintaining the compiler. There are tons of bugs listed in the bug tracker, and you have many great features planned for HaXe. You're uniquely qualified to do this work, but your time is consumed by your day job, taking care of the little one, and maintaining all the numerous projects that you started (such as haxelib).
>
> A build and package management tool is something the community can maintain. You should let us take this one over. If you're willing to host Haxed on haxe.org, we can do the rest, including porting over the existing libraries.

should probably just do it and take over this responsibility till it
gets to a point that the old haxelib etc can being being phased out or
simply replaced by the new. Probably a good time to start thinking about
this, because if you think BC is important now, then I'd hate to see how
important you think it is when there are one-million+ haxers.

i.e. show NC it's all done and handled and that he doesn't need to worry
and I'm quite sure he'll rubber stamp it.

Best,

Nathan

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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