The success of haxe

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The success of haxe

Tony Polinelli-2
I havent really got a plan for this post - just thinking so, im going to ramble some stuff off- so beware ;P

promotion was discussed the other night too - got me doing some searching and found a discussion about haxe on here: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=187397

Its interesting that the thread has ended with the comment:
"I think the main problem here is that they need to create something new and unique that is actually worth the time learning a new language to do. It's really not that haXe is useless, but rather, it's just that most people see no real reason to use it without explicit and great benefits to their project that would justify the learning curve."

got me thinking so...

This could be the iphone target, it could be a js library, it could be properly promoting the php target. Its most likely a combination. Straight away it is telling people about the EXISTING things that haxe does.

It comes down to being clear about showing what haxe has to offer- and WHY people would want to bother using it. For example, I think we really need to get some more information & tutorials on hxphp (might start some myself) - promote the concept of serverside dev in ecma (something i searched for ages for). I say hxphp (no neko) as it is more accessible to average people. Haxe has a lot of great code, but we need to descrive how is that useful to people - clearly. Maybe a 'why haxe?' intro page - or just add to the existing discover page.  Something listing the features not technically but in real world uses. eg. code serverside in an ecma style,  powerful haxevideo server, remoting, Js2 style javascript  - now, RIA development. I'm sure the list can go on for quite a while - we just need to make the uses of haxe more obvious Eg. talk about haxevideo... how it works, its benefits, sell it... then link to the page that technically says how to use it. The site ATM is focussed on the technicalities (which is good) - but not the real world uses & benefits.

As the language is divided into many targets (in its usage) - Maybe making a homepage for each of the targets on the website will give a space to post everything related to that target - quicklinks. Kind of an introduction to that target- code examples, reviews, tutorials, documentation, links to sites which use the target, etc. This will give people a starting point to learn about the target that they are interested in. I think most people will come to haxe for ONE specific target (to suffice their needs)... then branch out.

Also, to me, the design of the haxe website (and logo) could do with a few changes (visually). It doesnt give me the feeling that haxe is a professional product, and instill very much trust in the product. It looks like it could be aimed at game developers, but maybe not a corporate / professional market. It definately doesnt aim at the design market. So, how would we best define who haxe is targeted at? with that in mind it might be time to revamp. I would be interested in speaking to anyone who is interesting in (or involved in) the design of the site.

hope some of this is makes sense (could go on but i'll leave it close to short + sweet) - i'm not into marketing nor are most of you i'm sure - but we're moderately smart people.. it cant be that hard ;P - my housemate is doing a masters of marketing.. if only he could hear me say that

cheers,


--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Iain Surgey
I agree with your sentiments for the most part, but I think the best way to attract more "haXers" is not to tell them what it can do, but show them. Haxe simply needs more killer apps in my opinion, things that will demonstrate the great potential of this language.

One thing I have pondered is some way to tie everything together. Haxe seems to focus on web-dev in it's choices of platforms, but at present I see little unification beyond the common code syntax. Some sort of framework might be cool, tieing everything together into one unified solution for all web development, client and serverside, with easy and intuitive links between everything.

If a developer could approach the task of bulding an enitre website with interactive features like flash & javascript as well as serverside processing (neko, php) all in one go, and with one language, i'm sure it would be appealing.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Iain.

2009/5/25 Tony Polinelli <[hidden email]>
I havent really got a plan for this post - just thinking so, im going to ramble some stuff off- so beware ;P

promotion was discussed the other night too - got me doing some searching and found a discussion about haxe on here: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=187397

Its interesting that the thread has ended with the comment:
"I think the main problem here is that they need to create something new and unique that is actually worth the time learning a new language to do. It's really not that haXe is useless, but rather, it's just that most people see no real reason to use it without explicit and great benefits to their project that would justify the learning curve."

got me thinking so...

This could be the iphone target, it could be a js library, it could be properly promoting the php target. Its most likely a combination. Straight away it is telling people about the EXISTING things that haxe does.

It comes down to being clear about showing what haxe has to offer- and WHY people would want to bother using it. For example, I think we really need to get some more information & tutorials on hxphp (might start some myself) - promote the concept of serverside dev in ecma (something i searched for ages for). I say hxphp (no neko) as it is more accessible to average people. Haxe has a lot of great code, but we need to descrive how is that useful to people - clearly. Maybe a 'why haxe?' intro page - or just add to the existing discover page.  Something listing the features not technically but in real world uses. eg. code serverside in an ecma style,  powerful haxevideo server, remoting, Js2 style javascript  - now, RIA development. I'm sure the list can go on for quite a while - we just need to make the uses of haxe more obvious Eg. talk about haxevideo... how it works, its benefits, sell it... then link to the page that technically says how to use it. The site ATM is focussed on the technicalities (which is good) - but not the real world uses & benefits.

As the language is divided into many targets (in its usage) - Maybe making a homepage for each of the targets on the website will give a space to post everything related to that target - quicklinks. Kind of an introduction to that target- code examples, reviews, tutorials, documentation, links to sites which use the target, etc. This will give people a starting point to learn about the target that they are interested in. I think most people will come to haxe for ONE specific target (to suffice their needs)... then branch out.

Also, to me, the design of the haxe website (and logo) could do with a few changes (visually). It doesnt give me the feeling that haxe is a professional product, and instill very much trust in the product. It looks like it could be aimed at game developers, but maybe not a corporate / professional market. It definately doesnt aim at the design market. So, how would we best define who haxe is targeted at? with that in mind it might be time to revamp. I would be interested in speaking to anyone who is interesting in (or involved in) the design of the site.

hope some of this is makes sense (could go on but i'll leave it close to short + sweet) - i'm not into marketing nor are most of you i'm sure - but we're moderately smart people.. it cant be that hard ;P - my housemate is doing a masters of marketing.. if only he could hear me say that

cheers,


--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Tony Polinelli-2


On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Iain Surgey <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with your sentiments for the most part, but I think the best way to attract more "haXers" is not to tell them what it can do, but show them. Haxe simply needs more killer apps in my opinion, things that will demonstrate the great potential of this language.

As i said - a killer app would be great, but will take time. Right away i'll get to adding some pages which outline the best reasons to adopt haxe *currently*
 

One thing I have pondered is some way to tie everything together. Haxe seems to focus on web-dev in it's choices of platforms, but at present I see little unification beyond the common code syntax. Some sort of framework might be cool, tieing everything together into one unified solution for all web development, client and serverside, with easy and intuitive links between everything.

If a developer could approach the task of bulding an enitre website with interactive features like flash & javascript as well as serverside processing (neko, php) all in one go, and with one language, i'm sure it would be appealing.

i guess you mean as an downloadable example. We've done about 5 sites thus far entirely with haxe - our framework would need a little more work before becoming an official example i feel however. I could bang out an example site pretty fast - any ideas for a topic? (would be good not to be a fully superfluous site) There is already the hxBlog example too (altho i found it quite complex as a general purpose example for making sites).
 

Just my 2 cents ;)

Iain.

2009/5/25 Tony Polinelli <[hidden email]>
I havent really got a plan for this post - just thinking so, im going to ramble some stuff off- so beware ;P

promotion was discussed the other night too - got me doing some searching and found a discussion about haxe on here: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=187397

Its interesting that the thread has ended with the comment:
"I think the main problem here is that they need to create something new and unique that is actually worth the time learning a new language to do. It's really not that haXe is useless, but rather, it's just that most people see no real reason to use it without explicit and great benefits to their project that would justify the learning curve."

got me thinking so...

This could be the iphone target, it could be a js library, it could be properly promoting the php target. Its most likely a combination. Straight away it is telling people about the EXISTING things that haxe does.

It comes down to being clear about showing what haxe has to offer- and WHY people would want to bother using it. For example, I think we really need to get some more information & tutorials on hxphp (might start some myself) - promote the concept of serverside dev in ecma (something i searched for ages for). I say hxphp (no neko) as it is more accessible to average people. Haxe has a lot of great code, but we need to descrive how is that useful to people - clearly. Maybe a 'why haxe?' intro page - or just add to the existing discover page.  Something listing the features not technically but in real world uses. eg. code serverside in an ecma style,  powerful haxevideo server, remoting, Js2 style javascript  - now, RIA development. I'm sure the list can go on for quite a while - we just need to make the uses of haxe more obvious Eg. talk about haxevideo... how it works, its benefits, sell it... then link to the page that technically says how to use it. The site ATM is focussed on the technicalities (which is good) - but not the real world uses & benefits.

As the language is divided into many targets (in its usage) - Maybe making a homepage for each of the targets on the website will give a space to post everything related to that target - quicklinks. Kind of an introduction to that target- code examples, reviews, tutorials, documentation, links to sites which use the target, etc. This will give people a starting point to learn about the target that they are interested in. I think most people will come to haxe for ONE specific target (to suffice their needs)... then branch out.

Also, to me, the design of the haxe website (and logo) could do with a few changes (visually). It doesnt give me the feeling that haxe is a professional product, and instill very much trust in the product. It looks like it could be aimed at game developers, but maybe not a corporate / professional market. It definately doesnt aim at the design market. So, how would we best define who haxe is targeted at? with that in mind it might be time to revamp. I would be interested in speaking to anyone who is interesting in (or involved in) the design of the site.

hope some of this is makes sense (could go on but i'll leave it close to short + sweet) - i'm not into marketing nor are most of you i'm sure - but we're moderately smart people.. it cant be that hard ;P - my housemate is doing a masters of marketing.. if only he could hear me say that

cheers,


--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org



--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Iain Surgey


2009/5/25 Tony Polinelli <[hidden email]>

i guess you mean as an downloadable example. We've done about 5 sites thus far entirely with haxe - our framework would need a little more work before becoming an official example i feel however. I could bang out an example site pretty fast - any ideas for a topic? (would be good not to be a fully superfluous site) There is already the hxBlog example too (altho i found it quite complex as a general purpose example for making sites).

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

I think i'm being a little too ambitious, but I was meaning more of a solid, intuitive framework like django for python. One that would encompass everything haxe has to offer, client (flash, javascript) and server (neko, php) side into one simple API for creating an interactive website with all platforms communicating easily and synchronously. I don't know how feasible this is, or if its worth it, or how many would work on it.. it's just an idea i'm throwing out there.

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Chris Hecker
In reply to this post by Tony Polinelli-2

Does haxe need to be more successful?  Assuming Nicolas doesn't drop
dead, what's wrong with having a boutique language?  Do people want a
massively popular language where you need to weigh each change versus
backwards compatibility and have a committee decide, etc.?

Chris


Tony Polinelli wrote:

> I havent really got a plan for this post - just thinking so, im going to
> ramble some stuff off- so beware ;P
>
> promotion was discussed the other night too - got me doing some
> searching and found a discussion about haxe on here:
> http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=187397
>
> Its interesting that the thread has ended with the comment:
> "I think the main problem here is that they need to create something new
> and unique that/ is actually worth the time learning a new language /to
> do. It's really not that haXe is useless, but rather, it's just that
> most people see no real reason to use it without explicit and great
> benefits to their project that would justify the learning curve."
>
> got me thinking so...
>
> This could be the iphone target, it could be a js library, it could be
> properly promoting the php target. Its most likely a combination.
> Straight away it is telling people about the EXISTING things that haxe
> does.
>
> It comes down to being clear about showing what haxe has to offer- and
> WHY people would want to bother using it. For example, I think we really
> need to get some more information & tutorials on hxphp (might start some
> myself) - promote the concept of serverside dev in ecma (something i
> searched for ages for). I say hxphp (no neko) as it is more accessible
> to average people. Haxe has a lot of great code, but we need to descrive
> how is that useful to people - clearly. Maybe a 'why haxe?' intro page -
> or just add to the existing discover page.  Something listing the
> features not technically but in real world uses. eg. code serverside in
> an ecma style,  powerful haxevideo server, remoting, Js2 style
> javascript  - now, RIA development. I'm sure the list can go on for
> quite a while - we just need to make the uses of haxe more obvious Eg.
> talk about haxevideo... how it works, its benefits, sell it... then link
> to the page that technically says how to use it. The site ATM is
> focussed on the technicalities (which is good) - but not the real world
> uses & benefits.
>
> As the language is divided into many targets (in its usage) - Maybe
> making a homepage for each of the targets on the website will give a
> space to post everything related to that target - quicklinks. Kind of an
> introduction to that target- code examples, reviews, tutorials,
> documentation, links to sites which use the target, etc. This will give
> people a starting point to learn about the target that they are
> interested in. I think most people will come to haxe for ONE specific
> target (to suffice their needs)... then branch out.
>
> Also, to me, the design of the haxe website (and logo) could do with a
> few changes (visually). It doesnt give me the feeling that haxe is a
> professional product, and instill very much trust in the product. It
> looks like it could be aimed at game developers, but maybe not a
> corporate / professional market. It definately doesnt aim at the design
> market. So, how would we best define who haxe is targeted at? with that
> in mind it might be time to revamp. I would be interested in speaking to
> anyone who is interesting in (or involved in) the design of the site.
>
> hope some of this is makes sense (could go on but i'll leave it close to
> short + sweet) - i'm not into marketing nor are most of you i'm sure -
> but we're moderately smart people.. it cant be that hard ;P - my
> housemate is doing a masters of marketing.. if only he could hear me say
> that
>
> cheers,
>
>
> --
> Tony Polinelli
> http://touchmypixel.com
>

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

James W. Hofmann
In reply to this post by Iain Surgey
Quoting "Iain Surgey" <[hidden email]>:

> Haxe simply needs more killer apps in my opinion, things that will
> demonstrate the great potential of this language.

I don't know if "apps" is what I would look for in a language. Lots of  
killer apps have been made in C, after all ;)

"Get all these cool features on any platform you want" was always the  
hook for me. There are only a few kinds of features where haXe is  
necessarily less capable than a single-platform language, and those  
are mostly things that go deep into the implementation. But even then,  
you can always access platform-specific stuff from within haXe, build  
out a library, and gradually abstract it into a feature of haXe again.

I think mobile/embedded is where haXe will rule, much more so than the web.


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Baluta Cristian
In reply to this post by Chris Hecker
i'll probably never use frameworks made by someone else, and maybe that's why i don't see how can haxe become more popular if will have django or whatever.. but the iPhone version will be a nice move along with a new and clear design of the website. the current one, if it is or not, looks like a design made by a programmer.
i have a friend that see no point in learning haxe, but when i told about the iphone said to me that this one will be interesting. and another one that is writing js don't want that someone else to write the code for him.

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Chris Hecker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Does haxe need to be more successful?  Assuming Nicolas doesn't drop dead, what's wrong with having a boutique language?  Do people want a massively popular language where you need to weigh each change versus backwards compatibility and have a committee decide, etc.?

Chris



Tony Polinelli wrote:
I havent really got a plan for this post - just thinking so, im going to ramble some stuff off- so beware ;P

promotion was discussed the other night too - got me doing some searching and found a discussion about haxe on here: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=187397

Its interesting that the thread has ended with the comment:
"I think the main problem here is that they need to create something new and unique that/ is actually worth the time learning a new language /to do. It's really not that haXe is useless, but rather, it's just that most people see no real reason to use it without explicit and great benefits to their project that would justify the learning curve."

got me thinking so...

This could be the iphone target, it could be a js library, it could be properly promoting the php target. Its most likely a combination. Straight away it is telling people about the EXISTING things that haxe does.

It comes down to being clear about showing what haxe has to offer- and WHY people would want to bother using it. For example, I think we really need to get some more information & tutorials on hxphp (might start some myself) - promote the concept of serverside dev in ecma (something i searched for ages for). I say hxphp (no neko) as it is more accessible to average people. Haxe has a lot of great code, but we need to descrive how is that useful to people - clearly. Maybe a 'why haxe?' intro page - or just add to the existing discover page.  Something listing the features not technically but in real world uses. eg. code serverside in an ecma style,  powerful haxevideo server, remoting, Js2 style javascript  - now, RIA development. I'm sure the list can go on for quite a while - we just need to make the uses of haxe more obvious Eg. talk about haxevideo... how it works, its benefits, sell it... then link to the page that technically says how to use it. The site ATM is focussed on the technicalities (which is good) - but not the real world uses & benefits.

As the language is divided into many targets (in its usage) - Maybe making a homepage for each of the targets on the website will give a space to post everything related to that target - quicklinks. Kind of an introduction to that target- code examples, reviews, tutorials, documentation, links to sites which use the target, etc. This will give people a starting point to learn about the target that they are interested in. I think most people will come to haxe for ONE specific target (to suffice their needs)... then branch out.

Also, to me, the design of the haxe website (and logo) could do with a few changes (visually). It doesnt give me the feeling that haxe is a professional product, and instill very much trust in the product. It looks like it could be aimed at game developers, but maybe not a corporate / professional market. It definately doesnt aim at the design market. So, how would we best define who haxe is targeted at? with that in mind it might be time to revamp. I would be interested in speaking to anyone who is interesting in (or involved in) the design of the site.

hope some of this is makes sense (could go on but i'll leave it close to short + sweet) - i'm not into marketing nor are most of you i'm sure - but we're moderately smart people.. it cant be that hard ;P - my housemate is doing a masters of marketing.. if only he could hear me say that

cheers,


--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org



--
Băluță Cristian
http://ralcr.com
http://imagin.ro

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Tony Polinelli-2
I havent linked to it anywhere as yet, but i've started a "Why use haxe?" page on the site. It should be linked at the bottom of the "discover" page at the least i guess.

http://www.haxe.org/doc/why?lang=en

I'm sure you guys can come up with some more reasons for haxe - and maybe help describe some of the existing ones i've state. Feel free to edit it up!



On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Baluta Cristian <[hidden email]> wrote:
i'll probably never use frameworks made by someone else, and maybe that's why i don't see how can haxe become more popular if will have django or whatever.. but the iPhone version will be a nice move along with a new and clear design of the website. the current one, if it is or not, looks like a design made by a programmer.
i have a friend that see no point in learning haxe, but when i told about the iphone said to me that this one will be interesting. and another one that is writing js don't want that someone else to write the code for him.

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Chris Hecker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Does haxe need to be more successful?  Assuming Nicolas doesn't drop dead, what's wrong with having a boutique language?  Do people want a massively popular language where you need to weigh each change versus backwards compatibility and have a committee decide, etc.?

Chris



Tony Polinelli wrote:
I havent really got a plan for this post - just thinking so, im going to ramble some stuff off- so beware ;P

promotion was discussed the other night too - got me doing some searching and found a discussion about haxe on here: http://www.actionscript.org/forums/showthread.php3?t=187397

Its interesting that the thread has ended with the comment:
"I think the main problem here is that they need to create something new and unique that/ is actually worth the time learning a new language /to do. It's really not that haXe is useless, but rather, it's just that most people see no real reason to use it without explicit and great benefits to their project that would justify the learning curve."

got me thinking so...

This could be the iphone target, it could be a js library, it could be properly promoting the php target. Its most likely a combination. Straight away it is telling people about the EXISTING things that haxe does.

It comes down to being clear about showing what haxe has to offer- and WHY people would want to bother using it. For example, I think we really need to get some more information & tutorials on hxphp (might start some myself) - promote the concept of serverside dev in ecma (something i searched for ages for). I say hxphp (no neko) as it is more accessible to average people. Haxe has a lot of great code, but we need to descrive how is that useful to people - clearly. Maybe a 'why haxe?' intro page - or just add to the existing discover page.  Something listing the features not technically but in real world uses. eg. code serverside in an ecma style,  powerful haxevideo server, remoting, Js2 style javascript  - now, RIA development. I'm sure the list can go on for quite a while - we just need to make the uses of haxe more obvious Eg. talk about haxevideo... how it works, its benefits, sell it... then link to the page that technically says how to use it. The site ATM is focussed on the technicalities (which is good) - but not the real world uses & benefits.

As the language is divided into many targets (in its usage) - Maybe making a homepage for each of the targets on the website will give a space to post everything related to that target - quicklinks. Kind of an introduction to that target- code examples, reviews, tutorials, documentation, links to sites which use the target, etc. This will give people a starting point to learn about the target that they are interested in. I think most people will come to haxe for ONE specific target (to suffice their needs)... then branch out.

Also, to me, the design of the haxe website (and logo) could do with a few changes (visually). It doesnt give me the feeling that haxe is a professional product, and instill very much trust in the product. It looks like it could be aimed at game developers, but maybe not a corporate / professional market. It definately doesnt aim at the design market. So, how would we best define who haxe is targeted at? with that in mind it might be time to revamp. I would be interested in speaking to anyone who is interesting in (or involved in) the design of the site.

hope some of this is makes sense (could go on but i'll leave it close to short + sweet) - i'm not into marketing nor are most of you i'm sure - but we're moderately smart people.. it cant be that hard ;P - my housemate is doing a masters of marketing.. if only he could hear me say that

cheers,


--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org



--
Băluță Cristian
http://ralcr.com
http://imagin.ro

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org



--
Tony Polinelli
http://touchmypixel.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Adrian Veith
In reply to this post by Iain Surgey
Iain Surgey schrieb:

>
>
> 2009/5/25 Tony Polinelli <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
>     i guess you mean as an downloadable example. We've done about 5
>     sites thus far entirely with haxe - our framework would need a
>     little more work before becoming an official example i feel
>     however. I could bang out an example site pretty fast - any ideas
>     for a topic? (would be good not to be a fully superfluous site)
>     There is already the hxBlog example too (altho i found it quite
>     complex as a general purpose example for making sites).
>
>     --
>     haXe - an open source web programming language
>     http://haxe.org
>
>
> I think i'm being a little too ambitious, but I was meaning more of a
> solid, intuitive framework like django for python. One that would
> encompass everything haxe has to offer, client (flash, javascript) and
> server (neko, php) side into one simple API for creating an
> interactive website with all platforms communicating easily and
> synchronously. I don't know how feasible this is, or if its worth it,
> or how many would work on it.. it's just an idea i'm throwing out there.

For me haXe is much more than a language for creating web applications.
We use haXe in our company for the development of  our desktop
applications. We have an application server written in pascal which is
compatible to mod_neko. With haXe/neko we extend the functionality and
business logic of  the application server. The desktop applications
again connect to the server via haXe remoting. And again we use
haXe/neko and haXe/js to extend the desktop applications for specific
customer needs (or build pure web based applications). I could have done
the same with another technology, but I am convinced that the use of
haXe is the most flexible for the future.

Cheers,

Adrian.

--

Veith System GmbH
Laiming 3
83112 Frasdorf - Germany

Tel: +49-(0)8052-2636
Fax: +49-(0)8052-4019
USt.-IdNr.: DE 131 200 756
Handelsregister: Traunstein B4434
Geschäftsführer: Ulrich Veith, Adrian Veith






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Re: The success of haxe

Nicolas Cannasse
In reply to this post by Chris Hecker
Chris Hecker a écrit :
>
> Does haxe need to be more successful?  Assuming Nicolas doesn't drop
> dead, what's wrong with having a boutique language?  Do people want a
> massively popular language where you need to weigh each change versus
> backwards compatibility and have a committee decide, etc.?
>
> Chris

Chris is right : looking for more success is not something that comes
automatically. There is some definitive advantages at keeping haXe a
"small community" : people know more about each others, and it's easier
to adopt language changes.

Now, the main thing is that haXe code base has been quite stable since
2.0. There's been bug fixes and speed improvements, a new CPP platform
has been recently added, and a new language feature (still unnamed) has
been added.

But haXe has reached a very high level of stability and usability, and
since you know it's already in advance on several key features compared
to other programming languages, it's unlikely to get widely changed in
the next 3 years.

This stability makes me think that most of the work left is to have more
tools for haXe : IDE, libraries, frameworks. And the more people using
the language, the more stuff we will get. I'm always impressed by what
most of you have been doing with the language, which is far beyond what
I could have imagined. I honestly think that all the questions asked on
the mailing list have helped a lot to shape haXe and influenced it to
become what it is today.

So in order to keep a momentum, I guess it's always good to have new
people using the language and giving feedback about how it feels to
discover it, and fresh ideas about how things could be done better. I
think that a language that doesn't evolve will eventually die.

Also, I see a lot of people enthusiasm about haXe, and a will to say to
the "outer work" how much they enjoy programming in haXe compared to
some other languages they were using before : while I don't think that
haXe is suited for everybody, I guess there's still a lot of people that
would enjoy using it, so in the end I think it's better to keep on
promoting haXe, without making that our unique goal.

I'll tell how I feel we should promote it in my next post ;)

Best,
Nicolas

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Re: The success of haxe

Thomas-8
In reply to this post by Adrian Veith
Targeting the iPhone would certainly noy be the killer feature of
haxe. To develop on iPhone one can use Xcode and the Objective-C
language and the Cocoa dedicated framework, and it works perfectly.
Would people move on to haxe? I doubt it.

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Re: The success of haxe

Benjamin Dasnois
People may move to haXe for iPhone/MacOSX development for developping
games as they wouldn't use the Cocoa API. That would bring the
possibility for a lot of other studios to develop for the iPhone.

But actually, I was almost ready to learn Objective-J because of their
cappuccino framework, and maybe that's something we should borrow
inspiration from?

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Targeting the iPhone would certainly noy be the killer feature of
> haxe. To develop on iPhone one can use Xcode and the Objective-C
> language and the Cocoa dedicated framework, and it works perfectly.
> Would people move on to haxe? I doubt it.
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org
>



--
DASNOIS Benjamin
http://www.benjamindasnois.com

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Re: The success of haxe

Nicolas Cannasse
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse
> I'll tell how I feel we should promote it in my next post ;)

Second part ;)

Since I often go to Flash-related conferences, I know quite well about
how haXe is received by the people using Flash. First, we are at an
obvious disadvantage because we are not the "official" solution for
creating Flash content. It will be quite impossible to convince the
average Flash developer, but we can instead focus on two kind of
developers :

a) hardcore Flash developers : they want to push the Flash Player beyond
its limits. I think they can also have great impact on other developers
as well since they work if often well known. Of course, haXe already
helps a lot with that, thanks to the language itself and thanks to its
Flash9/10 speed improvements.

But that's maybe not enough : have a read at http://tinyurl.com/pejzmm
A lot of people have been complaining about AS3 recently, but haXe is
still not seen as a viable alternative to it. There are a few things we
can do to improve that :

  - show that haXe is not something that I'm doing alone in my garage.
We need more people to speak out about haXe, write articles or blog
posts, etc. I'm very interested in developing the haXe community and I
have several ideas for it.

  - work an on an Eclipse-based IDE, so people that are used to either
FlexBuilder or FDT feel much more "at-home" and can test haXe on
small-or-medium projects more easily

b) new Flash developers : we often see people that don't want to mess
with Adobe tools coming and asking questions on the mailing list. For
one guy that ask question, you can be sure that 10 others simply didn't
go further.

I think that in order to promote haXe as an alternative platform for
Flash development - without any prior AS3 knowledge - we need to write
more Flash "get started" tutorials and documentation : how to use
SWFMill and haXe together, how to integrate SVG graphics, how to handle
key/mouse events, network, UI, ... every often-asked question should be
referenced somewhere on the Wiki.

There are two things that are in the works for that :

  - The "Pratique d'AS3" book by Thibault Imbert is being rewritten by
Michal Romecki to adapt it to haXe. When done, we will have an online
book with complete Flash9 apis comprehensive walkthrough.... in French.
Having it translated to English would be great as well.

  - We started discussing with a few people about a new "haXe Manual"
that would be much more structured than the current organic Wiki. So far
only an introduction to haXe is available on http://haxe.org/manual . If
some of you are interested in taking on a part of the Manual, don't
hesitate !

For other platforms, I guess that what applies to Flash also applies to
them : better IDE support, more documentation and tutorials, more
communication.

The later is quite important : so far we were able to put haXe on the
map inside the Flash world. People have good or bad reasons not to use
it, but at least they know about it.

For all other platforms, haXe is almost invisible. We need to fix that
by communicating more to the outside world. High traffic community
websites such as Reddit.com, Ajaxian.com (for JS) or other PHP-related
portals might be good targets.

Don't hesitate to contact the website writers and introduce haXe, or ask
to write an article for it. This is definitely an area were the more
people will get involved the better the results will be.

 From what I hear when I talk about haXe, we already have a very good
technology with a lot of possibilities.

What is needed now is :
  - more dev tools (IDE)
  - more documentation
  - more communication

The good news is that it is something that can be easily distributed
among a lot of people - unlike compiler writing. So everyone interested
in further promoting haXe can give a hand ;)

Sorry for the long post,

Best,
Nicolas


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haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Christophe Eymard
Sounds fantastic.

But to do something of this magnitude, I think that somebody should be
in charge to coordinate all efforts, and synthesize all the things
that are to do, otherwise we can be pretty sure that many or some
people are going to contribute in a uncoordinated fashion thus leading
to a result a little disorganized.

Well actually, to do that, I think we need a project leader.

What do you people think about it ?
Does somebody feel up to the task ?

Also, Nicolas, I think that to write a decent plugin for haxe in
whichever IDE, the <d></d> tag for the --display option is going to
become pretty essential :)

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 12:09, Nicolas Cannasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> I'll tell how I feel we should promote it in my next post ;)
>
> Second part ;)
>
> Since I often go to Flash-related conferences, I know quite well about how
> haXe is received by the people using Flash. First, we are at an obvious
> disadvantage because we are not the "official" solution for creating Flash
> content. It will be quite impossible to convince the average Flash
> developer, but we can instead focus on two kind of developers :
>
> a) hardcore Flash developers : they want to push the Flash Player beyond its
> limits. I think they can also have great impact on other developers as well
> since they work if often well known. Of course, haXe already helps a lot
> with that, thanks to the language itself and thanks to its Flash9/10 speed
> improvements.
>
> But that's maybe not enough : have a read at http://tinyurl.com/pejzmm
> A lot of people have been complaining about AS3 recently, but haXe is still
> not seen as a viable alternative to it. There are a few things we can do to
> improve that :
>
>  - show that haXe is not something that I'm doing alone in my garage. We
> need more people to speak out about haXe, write articles or blog posts, etc.
> I'm very interested in developing the haXe community and I have several
> ideas for it.
>
>  - work an on an Eclipse-based IDE, so people that are used to either
> FlexBuilder or FDT feel much more "at-home" and can test haXe on
> small-or-medium projects more easily
>
> b) new Flash developers : we often see people that don't want to mess with
> Adobe tools coming and asking questions on the mailing list. For one guy
> that ask question, you can be sure that 10 others simply didn't go further.
>
> I think that in order to promote haXe as an alternative platform for Flash
> development - without any prior AS3 knowledge - we need to write more Flash
> "get started" tutorials and documentation : how to use SWFMill and haXe
> together, how to integrate SVG graphics, how to handle key/mouse events,
> network, UI, ... every often-asked question should be referenced somewhere
> on the Wiki.
>
> There are two things that are in the works for that :
>
>  - The "Pratique d'AS3" book by Thibault Imbert is being rewritten by Michal
> Romecki to adapt it to haXe. When done, we will have an online book with
> complete Flash9 apis comprehensive walkthrough.... in French. Having it
> translated to English would be great as well.
>
>  - We started discussing with a few people about a new "haXe Manual" that
> would be much more structured than the current organic Wiki. So far only an
> introduction to haXe is available on http://haxe.org/manual . If some of you
> are interested in taking on a part of the Manual, don't hesitate !
>
> For other platforms, I guess that what applies to Flash also applies to them
> : better IDE support, more documentation and tutorials, more communication.
>
> The later is quite important : so far we were able to put haXe on the map
> inside the Flash world. People have good or bad reasons not to use it, but
> at least they know about it.
>
> For all other platforms, haXe is almost invisible. We need to fix that by
> communicating more to the outside world. High traffic community websites
> such as Reddit.com, Ajaxian.com (for JS) or other PHP-related portals might
> be good targets.
>
> Don't hesitate to contact the website writers and introduce haXe, or ask to
> write an article for it. This is definitely an area were the more people
> will get involved the better the results will be.
>
> From what I hear when I talk about haXe, we already have a very good
> technology with a lot of possibilities.
>
> What is needed now is :
>  - more dev tools (IDE)
>  - more documentation
>  - more communication
>
> The good news is that it is something that can be easily distributed among a
> lot of people - unlike compiler writing. So everyone interested in further
> promoting haXe can give a hand ;)
>
> Sorry for the long post,
>
> Best,
> Nicolas
>
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org
>



--
Christophe Eymard

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Re: The success of haxe

Thomas-8
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse
Something has to be done concerning the documentation. It's
unacceptable. Do like Ruby on Rails, create a github account and allow
people to contribute to the source by at least commenting the methods
and then accept/reject the patches.

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http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Nicolas Cannasse
Thomas a écrit :
> Something has to be done concerning the documentation. It's
> unacceptable. Do like Ruby on Rails, create a github account and allow
> people to contribute to the source by at least commenting the methods
> and then accept/reject the patches.

API Documentation can be freely edited on the Wiki directly, there is
synchronization mechanism that will merge changes that are made.

Nicolas

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http://haxe.org
Nek
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Re: The success of haxe

Nek
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse
Guys it may sound like a crazy idea but something like a http://wonderfl.kayac.com in haXe could bring an attention of "visual" part of flash coders community. If I'm not mistaken haXe can do pixel bender filters on the fly and this is a great win.

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Nicolas Cannasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll tell how I feel we should promote it in my next post ;)

Second part ;)

Since I often go to Flash-related conferences, I know quite well about how haXe is received by the people using Flash. First, we are at an obvious disadvantage because we are not the "official" solution for creating Flash content. It will be quite impossible to convince the average Flash developer, but we can instead focus on two kind of developers :

a) hardcore Flash developers : they want to push the Flash Player beyond its limits. I think they can also have great impact on other developers as well since they work if often well known. Of course, haXe already helps a lot with that, thanks to the language itself and thanks to its Flash9/10 speed improvements.

But that's maybe not enough : have a read at http://tinyurl.com/pejzmm
A lot of people have been complaining about AS3 recently, but haXe is still not seen as a viable alternative to it. There are a few things we can do to improve that :

 - show that haXe is not something that I'm doing alone in my garage. We need more people to speak out about haXe, write articles or blog posts, etc. I'm very interested in developing the haXe community and I have several ideas for it.

 - work an on an Eclipse-based IDE, so people that are used to either FlexBuilder or FDT feel much more "at-home" and can test haXe on small-or-medium projects more easily

b) new Flash developers : we often see people that don't want to mess with Adobe tools coming and asking questions on the mailing list. For one guy that ask question, you can be sure that 10 others simply didn't go further.

I think that in order to promote haXe as an alternative platform for Flash development - without any prior AS3 knowledge - we need to write more Flash "get started" tutorials and documentation : how to use SWFMill and haXe together, how to integrate SVG graphics, how to handle key/mouse events, network, UI, ... every often-asked question should be referenced somewhere on the Wiki.

There are two things that are in the works for that :

 - The "Pratique d'AS3" book by Thibault Imbert is being rewritten by Michal Romecki to adapt it to haXe. When done, we will have an online book with complete Flash9 apis comprehensive walkthrough.... in French. Having it translated to English would be great as well.

 - We started discussing with a few people about a new "haXe Manual" that would be much more structured than the current organic Wiki. So far only an introduction to haXe is available on http://haxe.org/manual . If some of you are interested in taking on a part of the Manual, don't hesitate !

For other platforms, I guess that what applies to Flash also applies to them : better IDE support, more documentation and tutorials, more communication.

The later is quite important : so far we were able to put haXe on the map inside the Flash world. People have good or bad reasons not to use it, but at least they know about it.

For all other platforms, haXe is almost invisible. We need to fix that by communicating more to the outside world. High traffic community websites such as Reddit.com, Ajaxian.com (for JS) or other PHP-related portals might be good targets.

Don't hesitate to contact the website writers and introduce haXe, or ask to write an article for it. This is definitely an area were the more people will get involved the better the results will be.

>From what I hear when I talk about haXe, we already have a very good technology with a lot of possibilities.

What is needed now is :
 - more dev tools (IDE)
 - more documentation
 - more communication

The good news is that it is something that can be easily distributed among a lot of people - unlike compiler writing. So everyone interested in further promoting haXe can give a hand ;)

Sorry for the long post,

Best,
Nicolas


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Ian Liu Rodrigues
One thing that speed the learning
process is an interpretor, like python.
Oh my, I would love a haXe interpretor ;)

Ian L.

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Nikita Dudnik <[hidden email]> wrote:
Guys it may sound like a crazy idea but something like a http://wonderfl.kayac.com in haXe could bring an attention of "visual" part of flash coders community. If I'm not mistaken haXe can do pixel bender filters on the fly and this is a great win.


On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Nicolas Cannasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll tell how I feel we should promote it in my next post ;)

Second part ;)

Since I often go to Flash-related conferences, I know quite well about how haXe is received by the people using Flash. First, we are at an obvious disadvantage because we are not the "official" solution for creating Flash content. It will be quite impossible to convince the average Flash developer, but we can instead focus on two kind of developers :

a) hardcore Flash developers : they want to push the Flash Player beyond its limits. I think they can also have great impact on other developers as well since they work if often well known. Of course, haXe already helps a lot with that, thanks to the language itself and thanks to its Flash9/10 speed improvements.

But that's maybe not enough : have a read at http://tinyurl.com/pejzmm
A lot of people have been complaining about AS3 recently, but haXe is still not seen as a viable alternative to it. There are a few things we can do to improve that :

 - show that haXe is not something that I'm doing alone in my garage. We need more people to speak out about haXe, write articles or blog posts, etc. I'm very interested in developing the haXe community and I have several ideas for it.

 - work an on an Eclipse-based IDE, so people that are used to either FlexBuilder or FDT feel much more "at-home" and can test haXe on small-or-medium projects more easily

b) new Flash developers : we often see people that don't want to mess with Adobe tools coming and asking questions on the mailing list. For one guy that ask question, you can be sure that 10 others simply didn't go further.

I think that in order to promote haXe as an alternative platform for Flash development - without any prior AS3 knowledge - we need to write more Flash "get started" tutorials and documentation : how to use SWFMill and haXe together, how to integrate SVG graphics, how to handle key/mouse events, network, UI, ... every often-asked question should be referenced somewhere on the Wiki.

There are two things that are in the works for that :

 - The "Pratique d'AS3" book by Thibault Imbert is being rewritten by Michal Romecki to adapt it to haXe. When done, we will have an online book with complete Flash9 apis comprehensive walkthrough.... in French. Having it translated to English would be great as well.

 - We started discussing with a few people about a new "haXe Manual" that would be much more structured than the current organic Wiki. So far only an introduction to haXe is available on http://haxe.org/manual . If some of you are interested in taking on a part of the Manual, don't hesitate !

For other platforms, I guess that what applies to Flash also applies to them : better IDE support, more documentation and tutorials, more communication.

The later is quite important : so far we were able to put haXe on the map inside the Flash world. People have good or bad reasons not to use it, but at least they know about it.

For all other platforms, haXe is almost invisible. We need to fix that by communicating more to the outside world. High traffic community websites such as Reddit.com, Ajaxian.com (for JS) or other PHP-related portals might be good targets.

Don't hesitate to contact the website writers and introduce haXe, or ask to write an article for it. This is definitely an area were the more people will get involved the better the results will be.

>From what I hear when I talk about haXe, we already have a very good technology with a lot of possibilities.

What is needed now is :
 - more dev tools (IDE)
 - more documentation
 - more communication

The good news is that it is something that can be easily distributed among a lot of people - unlike compiler writing. So everyone interested in further promoting haXe can give a hand ;)

Sorry for the long post,

Best,
Nicolas


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: The success of haxe

Gamehaxe
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse
Hi,
If your goal is to attract novice programmers then
one very practical thing that can be done is to have an official forum.
While then anthropic principle ensures all here like/
love/could not possibly use anything other than a mailing list,
this is most certainly not the case for a novices, who
find mailing lists intimidating.

Another thing I think is the "packaging" of the download.
These should follow the convertions of the target OS. and
ideally package an IDE of some sort, so on windows, you would
have start>haxe>haxedevelop (or whichever is chosen).
On mac, it might be Xcode plugins or similar IDE.
But whichever, immediately after install, being able to
single click, choose a flash template and have an html page
with "hello world" or a bouncing ball - gives you somewhere
to start.

A comment for Justin on hxcpp:

> in terminal..
> haxelib install nme
> haxelib install neash
> haxelib install hxcpp
>open textmate... and .... ?

I think most people can modify a working system, but getting
started is always hard.

Providing a bunch of haxelib libraries in the standard download
would help too - or maybe a gui tool.  I know the idea is to
keep things lean, but command line is a real barrier.

And I know maintaining an installer can be a pain (although
it can be automated once it is working) But it someone from each
platform were to put something together it would be a
really positive thing - and it need not come out day & date
with the main release, so that may take some pressure off.

Maybe what I am saying is get a platform coordinater for
each platform to package up the release and add any/all goodies
that go with the platform.  Maybe extend to linux64 too.

Hugh


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Re: The success of haxe

Ron Wheeler
In reply to this post by Nicolas Cannasse
Very good analysis.

Can we get some work done on the Eclipse plug-in and then get it more
visibility within the Eclipse community?

I would urge anyone who does any testing of libraries or approaches to
think about using their test code as a base for a tutorial.

Ron

Nicolas Cannasse wrote:

>> I'll tell how I feel we should promote it in my next post ;)
>
> Second part ;)
>
> Since I often go to Flash-related conferences, I know quite well about
> how haXe is received by the people using Flash. First, we are at an
> obvious disadvantage because we are not the "official" solution for
> creating Flash content. It will be quite impossible to convince the
> average Flash developer, but we can instead focus on two kind of
> developers :
>
> a) hardcore Flash developers : they want to push the Flash Player
> beyond its limits. I think they can also have great impact on other
> developers as well since they work if often well known. Of course,
> haXe already helps a lot with that, thanks to the language itself and
> thanks to its Flash9/10 speed improvements.
>
> But that's maybe not enough : have a read at http://tinyurl.com/pejzmm
> A lot of people have been complaining about AS3 recently, but haXe is
> still not seen as a viable alternative to it. There are a few things
> we can do to improve that :
>
>  - show that haXe is not something that I'm doing alone in my garage.
> We need more people to speak out about haXe, write articles or blog
> posts, etc. I'm very interested in developing the haXe community and I
> have several ideas for it.
>
>  - work an on an Eclipse-based IDE, so people that are used to either
> FlexBuilder or FDT feel much more "at-home" and can test haXe on
> small-or-medium projects more easily
>
> b) new Flash developers : we often see people that don't want to mess
> with Adobe tools coming and asking questions on the mailing list. For
> one guy that ask question, you can be sure that 10 others simply
> didn't go further.
>
> I think that in order to promote haXe as an alternative platform for
> Flash development - without any prior AS3 knowledge - we need to write
> more Flash "get started" tutorials and documentation : how to use
> SWFMill and haXe together, how to integrate SVG graphics, how to
> handle key/mouse events, network, UI, ... every often-asked question
> should be referenced somewhere on the Wiki.
>
> There are two things that are in the works for that :
>
>  - The "Pratique d'AS3" book by Thibault Imbert is being rewritten by
> Michal Romecki to adapt it to haXe. When done, we will have an online
> book with complete Flash9 apis comprehensive walkthrough.... in
> French. Having it translated to English would be great as well.
>
>  - We started discussing with a few people about a new "haXe Manual"
> that would be much more structured than the current organic Wiki. So
> far only an introduction to haXe is available on
> http://haxe.org/manual . If some of you are interested in taking on a
> part of the Manual, don't hesitate !
>
> For other platforms, I guess that what applies to Flash also applies
> to them : better IDE support, more documentation and tutorials, more
> communication.
>
> The later is quite important : so far we were able to put haXe on the
> map inside the Flash world. People have good or bad reasons not to use
> it, but at least they know about it.
>
> For all other platforms, haXe is almost invisible. We need to fix that
> by communicating more to the outside world. High traffic community
> websites such as Reddit.com, Ajaxian.com (for JS) or other PHP-related
> portals might be good targets.
>
> Don't hesitate to contact the website writers and introduce haXe, or
> ask to write an article for it. This is definitely an area were the
> more people will get involved the better the results will be.
>
> From what I hear when I talk about haXe, we already have a very good
> technology with a lot of possibilities.
>
> What is needed now is :
>  - more dev tools (IDE)
>  - more documentation
>  - more communication
>
> The good news is that it is something that can be easily distributed
> among a lot of people - unlike compiler writing. So everyone
> interested in further promoting haXe can give a hand ;)
>
> Sorry for the long post,
>
> Best,
> Nicolas
>
>



--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
12