Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (sledorze)

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Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (sledorze)

Mehrdad Kaveh
Hi,
My first post in this mailing list.
First i can't digest the structure of these mailing lists, why should these be text like in 2011 anymore?

And i am currently reading these books in row, so one day i could understand how 3D engines work:
3D Math Primer for Graphics and Game Development[PDF]
3D Game Engine Architecture[PDF] 3D graphics for game programming[Book]
Game engine gems 1[Book]
Game engine gems 2[PDF] GPU pro, advanced rendering techniques[Book]
game physics pearls[Book]

and a few other PDFs,

tell me if i am missing something for molehill 3D engine programming.







> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Haxe Digest, Vol 68, Issue 73
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:55:06 -0700
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (Matthew Spencer)
> 2. Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (sledorze)
> 3. Re: Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (Nicolas Cannasse)
> 4. Re: Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (Matthew Spencer)
> 5. Re: comparison of tween libraries (Allan Dowdeswell)
> 6. Re: Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (Gamehaxe)
> 7. Re: Re: comparison of tween libraries (Joshua Granick)
> 8. JavaScript / instantiating extern class causes script error
> (Richard Janicek)
> 9. Re: JavaScript / instantiating extern class causes script
> error (Joshua Granick)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:39:30 -0400
> From: Matthew Spencer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [haXe] 3D Engine incubator - next step.
> To: [hidden email], The haXe compiler list
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> They hide VAO access. Not VBO access.
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: sledorze <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [haXe] Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step.
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinJ3TTJHw5BCB6UAOjLko=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> oh.. anyway it's somewhat a comparable issue..
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Matthew Spencer-2 [via Haxe] <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > They hide VAO access. Not VBO access.
> > --
> > haXe - an open source web programming language
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> > http://haxe.1354130.n2.nabble.com/3D-Engine-incubator-next-step-tp6469370p6470181.html
> > To unsubscribe from 3D Engine incubator - next step., click here< >
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> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:53:12 +0200
> From: Nicolas Cannasse <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [haXe] Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step.
> To: The haXe compiler list <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Le 13/06/2011 15:13, Matthew Spencer a écrit :
> > In the meeting, we discussed implementing the low-level API based on
> > Stage3D/Context3D since Away3D is based on Stage3D and it would require
> > few changes. However, after looking at Stage3D more closely, it lacks
> > some important performance based features. Not to mention that many of
> > the functions add an extra step by wrapping things up in classes. No VAO
> > support increases state changes and gl function calls.
> >
> > I'm sorry that I did not bring this up in the meeting, but I had not
> > looked extensively into Molehill recently. If we write the
> > cross-platform API a bit closer to gl, we'll gain performance and
> > flexability on non Molehill targets. Any native support that Molehill
> > lacks, can be emulated.
>
> I think that Stage3D is low level and abstract enough to be a good
> starting base. You can upload data to GPU through buffers/textures and
> manipulate it with shaders. period.
>
> Emulating the "good-old" GL functions when you create buffers on-the-fly
> from code with glVertex and friends is just no longer a good/efficient
> way to do 3D
>
> As for wrapper classes : as long as it's per-buffer (and not per-vertex)
> it's fine, and if you need to make a lot of API calls you can still
> inline the methods.
>
> That's for the low-level stuff.
>
> High-level layer can build a lot of different things on top of it, and
> eventually use some medium-layer abstractions that use fast-paths on
> some particular platforms.
>
> Nicolas
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:04:58 -0400
> From: Matthew Spencer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [haXe] Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step.
> To: The haXe compiler list <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> >
> > I think that Stage3D is low level and abstract enough to be a good starting
> > base. You can upload data to GPU through buffers/textures and manipulate it
> > with shaders. period.
> >
> It is, just misses a few basic things.
>
>
> > Emulating the "good-old" GL functions when you create buffers on-the-fly
> > from code with glVertex and friends is just no longer a good/efficient way
> > to do 3D
> >
> Oh, no. I've never had any intention to do this at all. The only way this
> will be done is if I'm asked to implement OpenGL 1.0 support, which does not
> have the ability to utilize DMA, or buffers. Even virtualbox VM's without 3D
> acceleration have access to OpenGL 1.1 though, so I doubt 1.0 support will
> ever be needed.
>
>
> > As for wrapper classes : as long as it's per-buffer (and not per-vertex)
> > it's fine, and if you need to make a lot of API calls you can still inline
> > the methods.
> >
> As said above, nothing will be per vertex. VAO support would be nice to have
> for reducing calls, which is why I brought up implementing some extra
> features from the GL featureset into the API.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:53:08 -0600
> From: Allan Dowdeswell <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [haXe] Re: comparison of tween libraries
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I was trying to use GTweenHX with Jeash/Flash, tweening both x
> coordinates and alpha. It worked in Flash but Jeash would only do
> alpha. I'd love to either get that working or else find a tween
> library that does work.
> -Allan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:38:00 +0800
> From: Gamehaxe <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [haXe] Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step.
> To: "The haXe compiler list" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <op.vw0tpmeb2w6r7u@weave>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
> Yes, I highly recommend first getting it working with flash.
> Starting with a well-defined API is over half your work done.
> The Stage3D API is much smaller than the Stage 2D stuff, so emulating
> the API in JS should be very doable. And what is more, it splits
> the project off into a separate job, which can succeed or fail on
> its own. That is to say, if the JS side works, but the rest fails,
> or the other way around, you are still left with something good.
> If you write "The new API to kill all other APIs", and you do not
> actually finish it, you are left with nothing.
> Alternatively, you could choose the JS low level implementation
> as fixed, and write an adapter class for flash - much the same
> benefits if you think the JS API is as well defined.
> If you do not limit your scope, the project will vanish into thin air.
>
> Get it working.
>
> Then you profile.
>
> Then you optimise.
>
> .. cross-platform API a bit closer to gl ..
> I think you will find that the molehill API is VERY close to
> "best practice opengl".
>
> It is easy to add a "native tunnel" in NME and fit it in generally
> with the existing API if you want a fast way of doing things -
> eg nme.display.Graphics.drawTiles. You could always do something
> similar with opengl, but honestly I don't think you will have to.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:11:06 -0700
> From: "Joshua Granick" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [haXe] Re: comparison of tween libraries
> To: "The haXe compiler list" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <op.vw0u8sjcsc1ydh@joshua-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I use Actuate
>
> haxelib install actuate
>
>
> Actuate.tween (MyObject, 1, { x: 100, y: 100 } ).delay (1).onComplete
> (myCallback);
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:53:08 -0700, Allan Dowdeswell
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I was trying to use GTweenHX with Jeash/Flash, tweening both x
> > coordinates and alpha. It worked in Flash but Jeash would only do alpha.
> > I'd love to either get that working or else find a tween library that
> > does work.
> > -Allan
> >
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:33:46 -0400
> From: Richard Janicek <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [haXe] JavaScript / instantiating extern class causes script
> error
> To: haxe <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTin6vCEKa8Y=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm a new haXe developer. I'm trying to extend js.XMLHttpRequest but have
> run into this problem. I have reduced it to a minimal test case below.
> Please advise.
>
> package test;
>
> extern class ExternClass {
> function new():Void;
> }
>
> class Main {
> static function main() {
> new ExternClass();
> }
> }
>
>
> line with "new ExternClass();"
>
> causes this runtime error:
>
> Script error.
>
> Called from test.Main::main
>
>
> Thank you,
> § Richard Janicek
> www.Clock2D.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:54:12 -0700
> From: "Joshua Granick" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [haXe] JavaScript / instantiating extern class causes
> script error
> To: haxe <[hidden email]>, "Richard Janicek"
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <op.vw0w8m2asc1ydh@joshua-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> If you create an extern class, it means that it should already exist in
> Javascript ... you're really just adding completion.
>
> So long as test.ExternClass exists, this should work, but otherwise it
> will fail because the object doesn't exist. Use "class" (no "extern") if
> you want to define a new object, rather than clarifying something which is
> already present
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:33:46 -0700, Richard Janicek <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm a new haXe developer. I'm trying to extend js.XMLHttpRequest but have
> > run into this problem. I have reduced it to a minimal test case below.
> > Please advise.
> >
> > package test;
> >
> > extern class ExternClass {
> > function new():Void;
> > }
> >
> > class Main {
> > static function main() {
> > new ExternClass();
> > }
> > }
> >
> >
> > line with "new ExternClass();"
> >
> > causes this runtime error:
> >
> > Script error.
> >
> > Called from test.Main::main
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> > § Richard Janicek
> > www.Clock2D.com
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
>
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> End of Haxe Digest, Vol 68, Issue 73
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Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (sledorze)

Nicolas Cannasse
Le 14/06/2011 08:59, Mehrdad Kaveh a écrit :
> Hi,
> My first post in this mailing list.
> First i can't digest the structure of these mailing lists, why should these be text like in 2011 anymore?

IMHO text is a good way to send words between people.

Speech is overrated.

Best,
Nicolas

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Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (sledorze)

Lee Sylvester
As a person with Auditory Processing Disorder, I highly concur :-)

Lee


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cannasse
Sent: 14 June 2011 08:05
To: [hidden email]; The haXe compiler list
Subject: Re: [haXe] Re: 3D Engine incubator - next step. (sledorze)

Le 14/06/2011 08:59, Mehrdad Kaveh a écrit :
> Hi,
> My first post in this mailing list.
> First i can't digest the structure of these mailing lists, why should
these be text like in 2011 anymore?

IMHO text is a good way to send words between people.

Speech is overrated.

Best,
Nicolas

--
haXe - an open source web programming language http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org