Community need to address technical aspects posted

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Community need to address technical aspects posted

jlm@justinfront.net
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it  
is important that someone address them from a technical view point as  
I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads  
like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some  
haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative  
merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the  
thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode  
which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some  
advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make  
sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed  
to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change  
the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding  
where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical  
so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly  
optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even  
if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/
getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular  
operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions,  
got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but  
not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on  
basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not  
seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online  
but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very  
painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
I think a lot of what he's saying in terms of speed is actually not really true, at least from things I've tested. There are some good points about the "in" property, and yes this was an optimization that mattered in AVM1 (you could do some magic with hasOwnProperty) but never seen it to be a problem in AVM2 / AS3 / haxe. Anyone else?


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: +61 3 8060 5321
_______________________


On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

MartinLindelof
My only feedback is that what I feel in my heart. haXe it way more _fun_ ! than as3. I think Flash IDe suck! and FB is a dead bloated carcass of Eclipse, I love Eclihx :) in it's simplicity. But i'm not going to say that.

regarding this comment though, 

converting code form AS3 > Haxe and having to change “for (i =0; i < 10; i++)” style loops but that’s not REALLY a problem at all (use “while” instead).

I didn't fin that at all when I port as3 code to haxe, I dont think it's hard to change that to for(i 0...10) , and also going through loops etc automatically makes you refactor and maybe optimize the as3 code for haXe. 

I guess auto-convertor are convinient but porting is also a way to learn.

-- 
Martin Lindelöf
www.medborgarplatsen.com

On Monday, July 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Tarwin Stroh-Spijer wrote:

I think a lot of what he's saying in terms of speed is actually not really true, at least from things I've tested. There are some good points about the "in" property, and yes this was an optimization that mattered in AVM1 (you could do some magic with hasOwnProperty) but never seen it to be a problem in AVM2 / AS3 / haxe. Anyone else?


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: +61 3 8060 5321
_______________________


On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
I think the main thing he's argueing though is that haxe is bloated, which I've never found - always found it FASTER. So that's the only thing that needs to be PROVEN.


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: +61 3 8060 5321
_______________________


On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Martin Lindelöf <[hidden email]> wrote:
My only feedback is that what I feel in my heart. haXe it way more _fun_ ! than as3. I think Flash IDe suck! and FB is a dead bloated carcass of Eclipse, I love Eclihx :) in it's simplicity. But i'm not going to say that.

regarding this comment though, 

converting code form AS3 > Haxe and having to change “for (i =0; i < 10; i++)” style loops but that’s not REALLY a problem at all (use “while” instead).

I didn't fin that at all when I port as3 code to haxe, I dont think it's hard to change that to for(i 0...10) , and also going through loops etc automatically makes you refactor and maybe optimize the as3 code for haXe. 

I guess auto-convertor are convinient but porting is also a way to learn.

-- 
Martin Lindelöf
www.medborgarplatsen.com

On Monday, July 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Tarwin Stroh-Spijer wrote:

I think a lot of what he's saying in terms of speed is actually not really true, at least from things I've tested. There are some good points about the "in" property, and yes this was an optimization that mattered in AVM1 (you could do some magic with hasOwnProperty) but never seen it to be a problem in AVM2 / AS3 / haxe. Anyone else?


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208060%205321" value="+61380605321" target="_blank">+61 3 8060 5321
_______________________


On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Cauê W.
In reply to this post by MartinLindelof
skyboy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Most static functions he mentions (such as Lib.as) are inlined so there is no loss of performance at all with that. Maybe the only one that isn't inlined, and could have been is Std.is.
The "in" operator he's talking about is maybe for enumerating properties in an object? I doubt he will need to do that in a performance-critical code, and if he does, he's probably doing something very wrong, and if it's not performance critical then no reason why using the standard cross-target safe Reflect api would be bad.
Actually someone should point him to http://compiler.kaustic.net/lab/?p=55 so he can learn how optimized flash-generated bytecode is.

Sorry for the semi-rant, I can't stand people making un-informed criticism about haXe.
Cheers
Cauê

2011/7/4 Martin Lindelöf <[hidden email]>
My only feedback is that what I feel in my heart. haXe it way more _fun_ ! than as3. I think Flash IDe suck! and FB is a dead bloated carcass of Eclipse, I love Eclihx :) in it's simplicity. But i'm not going to say that.

regarding this comment though, 

converting code form AS3 > Haxe and having to change “for (i =0; i < 10; i++)” style loops but that’s not REALLY a problem at all (use “while” instead).

I didn't fin that at all when I port as3 code to haxe, I dont think it's hard to change that to for(i 0...10) , and also going through loops etc automatically makes you refactor and maybe optimize the as3 code for haXe. 

I guess auto-convertor are convinient but porting is also a way to learn.

-- 
Martin Lindelöf
www.medborgarplatsen.com

On Monday, July 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Tarwin Stroh-Spijer wrote:

I think a lot of what he's saying in terms of speed is actually not really true, at least from things I've tested. There are some good points about the "in" property, and yes this was an optimization that mattered in AVM1 (you could do some magic with hasOwnProperty) but never seen it to be a problem in AVM2 / AS3 / haxe. Anyone else?


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: +61 3 8060 5321
_______________________


On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Nicolas Cannasse
In reply to this post by jlm@justinfront.net
Le 04/07/2011 11:44, [hidden email] a écrit :
> Hi
>
> On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:
>
> http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I made a complete answer, but will not follow the thread since the guy
opinion seems to be quite biased.

Nicolas


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Matthew Spencer-2
In reply to this post by Cauê W.
skyboy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Indeed...  He lost any credibility when he started talking about Alchemy ops being slow.

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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RE: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Lee Sylvester
In reply to this post by Tarwin Stroh-Spijer

I might agree with the JS target being a little bloated, but the ease of development haXe brings makes it more than justified.   Just try building a large team effort JS app in pure JS J  You’ll soon change your mind ;-)

 

Lee

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
Sent: 04 July 2011 13:42
To: The haXe compiler list
Subject: Re: [haXe] Community need to address technical aspects posted

 

I think the main thing he's argueing though is that haxe is bloated, which I've never found - always found it FASTER. So that's the only thing that needs to be PROVEN.


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: +61 3 8060 5321
_______________________

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Martin Lindelöf <[hidden email]> wrote:

My only feedback is that what I feel in my heart. haXe it way more _fun_ ! than as3. I think Flash IDe suck! and FB is a dead bloated carcass of Eclipse, I love Eclihx :) in it's simplicity. But i'm not going to say that.

 

regarding this comment though, 

 

converting code form AS3 > Haxe and having to change “for (i =0; i < 10; i++)” style loops but that’s not REALLY a problem at all (use “while” instead).

 

I didn't fin that at all when I port as3 code to haxe, I dont think it's hard to change that to for(i 0...10) , and also going through loops etc automatically makes you refactor and maybe optimize the as3 code for haXe. 

 

I guess auto-convertor are convinient but porting is also a way to learn.

-- 
Martin Lindelöf
www.medborgarplatsen.com

On Monday, July 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Tarwin Stroh-Spijer wrote:

I think a lot of what he's saying in terms of speed is actually not really true, at least from things I've tested. There are some good points about the "in" property, and yes this was an optimization that mattered in AVM1 (you could do some magic with hasOwnProperty) but never seen it to be a problem in AVM2 / AS3 / haxe. Anyone else?


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208060%205321" target="_blank">+61 3 8060 5321
_______________________

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

 

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

 


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

 


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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RE: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Lee Sylvester
In reply to this post by Tarwin Stroh-Spijer

Sorry, meant JS output from haXe, so as to be specific.

 

Lee

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
Sent: 04 July 2011 13:42
To: The haXe compiler list
Subject: Re: [haXe] Community need to address technical aspects posted

 

I think the main thing he's argueing though is that haxe is bloated, which I've never found - always found it FASTER. So that's the only thing that needs to be PROVEN.


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: +61 3 8060 5321
_______________________

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Martin Lindelöf <[hidden email]> wrote:

My only feedback is that what I feel in my heart. haXe it way more _fun_ ! than as3. I think Flash IDe suck! and FB is a dead bloated carcass of Eclipse, I love Eclihx :) in it's simplicity. But i'm not going to say that.

 

regarding this comment though, 

 

converting code form AS3 > Haxe and having to change “for (i =0; i < 10; i++)” style loops but that’s not REALLY a problem at all (use “while” instead).

 

I didn't fin that at all when I port as3 code to haxe, I dont think it's hard to change that to for(i 0...10) , and also going through loops etc automatically makes you refactor and maybe optimize the as3 code for haXe. 

 

I guess auto-convertor are convinient but porting is also a way to learn.

-- 
Martin Lindelöf
www.medborgarplatsen.com

On Monday, July 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Tarwin Stroh-Spijer wrote:

I think a lot of what he's saying in terms of speed is actually not really true, at least from things I've tested. There are some good points about the "in" property, and yes this was an optimization that mattered in AVM1 (you could do some magic with hasOwnProperty) but never seen it to be a problem in AVM2 / AS3 / haxe. Anyone else?


Tarwin Stroh-Spijer
_______________________

Touch My Pixel
http://www.touchmypixel.com/
phone: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208060%205321" target="_blank">+61 3 8060 5321
_______________________

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:44 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

 

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

 


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

 


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Rob Fell
In reply to this post by jlm@justinfront.net

I've attached my scientific data on the observed phenomena as an image.
(Note: sample group included several thousand one monkeys)


On 11:59 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j




--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

haXeLove.png (18K) Download Attachment
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Julien CASTETS

+1

;-)

Le 4 juil. 2011 19:39, "Rob Fell" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> I've attached my scientific data on the observed phenomena as an image.
> (Note: sample group included several thousand one monkeys)
>
>
> On 11:59 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:
>>
>> http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3
>>
>> I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it
>> is important that someone address them from a technical view point as
>> I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads
>> like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some
>> haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative
>> merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the
>> thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode
>> which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some
>> advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make
>> sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed
>> to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change
>> the other factors need to be said. Also I am interested in avoiding
>> where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical
>> so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly
>> optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.
>>
>> I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even
>> if it is only in how we present haXe.
>>
>> If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x
>> setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less
>> popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite
>> versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge
>> gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very
>> slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and
>> >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to
>> look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so
>> googling is very painful.
>>
>> ;j
>>
>>
>

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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Justin Donaldson-3
In reply to this post by Rob Fell
I grabbed all of the mailing list messages over at the archives, and parsed them out.
http://lists.motion-twin.com/pipermail/haxe/

Here's the messages per day over the past few years.  It's amazing how little it's changed, despite a few spikes. :)

(light grey is daily counts, dark grey is 7 day moving average, orange is 30 day)

Of course, there's more activity on the forums these days as well... so this isn't a good measure.

-Justin

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Rob Fell <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've attached my scientific data on the observed phenomena as an image.
(Note: sample group included several thousand one monkeys)



On 11:59 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
Hi

On the blogs I noticed a link to a thread here:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/4-programming/topics/180295-haxe-or-as3

I am not sure if the assertions skyboy makes are valid, but I think it is important that someone address them from a technical view point as I am not sure they are fully technically correct, as it is threads like these that are a deciding factor for new users, and while some haXe users have answered maybe some more technical details on relative merits of haXe compiler for as3 needs to be added, currently the thread seems to suggest that flex compiler provides better bytecode which I am not convinced, obviously there will always be some advantages of working with as3 and vicer verser, but we need to make sure some objective tests and information are out there or pointed to... since user base is currently not something we can easily change the other factors need to be said.   Also I am interested in avoiding where relevant any downsides on the as3 target when speed is critical so interested in any answer given, otherwise good to not overly optimize keeping code future proof and cross platform.

I think critics like skyboy are very important to improving haXe, even if it is only in how we present haXe.

If I was critiquing haXe I think my main areas are e4x setters/getters, and the issues about setting up nme/neko/cpp on less popular operating setups, and php and neko using different sqlite versions, got a book on c++ recently to try to fill in some knowledge gaps, but not sure I picked the right one... it seems to be to very slow pace on basic stuff but it make it seem complex, but also << and >> do not seem to be explained in words I find easy, maybe have to look online but only have mobile phone connection for moment so googling is very painful.

;j




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haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


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haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Matthew Spencer-2
The amount of mis-information presented by skyboy is getting pretty ridiculous. Should we fight him on this, or ignore it as a waste of time?
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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

jlm@justinfront.net
Well I suggested he post a sensible code example and have explained my  
less technical take on haXe.

On 6 Jul 2011, at 07:13, Matthew Spencer wrote:

> The amount of mis-information presented by skyboy is getting pretty  
> ridiculous. Should we fight him on this, or ignore it as a waste of  
> time? --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org


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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

Matthew Spencer-2
Yeah. I just read it, and posted as well. His information is just completely false. This is one of those people that is living in his own imaginary world.

"i’m arguably one of the top 10-15 programmers on these forums" -skyboy

He thinks he's gods gift to the world of programming, and it seems like a good chunk of the Kongregate forum view him this way.

I looked at his performance comparison for Alchemy mem vs Vector and others. It's ridiculously flawed. The bytecode is complete garbage, and all the tests are extremely slow. Where his Alchemy test takes 1800ms to read and write 10m entries, my HaXe version takes about 28ms. I'm too lazy to hand write it, but abusing the stack would cut it down to ~15ms. Vector by comparison sits at 125ms. And the AS3 Vector compiled on my old version of mxmlc is 704ms. 

As for all his other claims, most are bullshit, or misrepresented. It's sad to see HaXe misrepresented by a AS3 fanboy, but he's not going to give up.

--Matthew Spencer

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Re: Community need to address technical aspects posted

MartinLindelof
skyboy jong il. 

-- 
Martin Lindelöf
www.medborgarplatsen.com

On Wednesday, July 6, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Matthew Spencer wrote:

Yeah. I just read it, and posted as well. His information is just completely false. This is one of those people that is living in his own imaginary world.

"i’m arguably one of the top 10-15 programmers on these forums" -skyboy

He thinks he's gods gift to the world of programming, and it seems like a good chunk of the Kongregate forum view him this way.

I looked at his performance comparison for Alchemy mem vs Vector and others. It's ridiculously flawed. The bytecode is complete garbage, and all the tests are extremely slow. Where his Alchemy test takes 1800ms to read and write 10m entries, my HaXe version takes about 28ms. I'm too lazy to hand write it, but abusing the stack would cut it down to ~15ms. Vector by comparison sits at 125ms. And the AS3 Vector compiled on my old version of mxmlc is 704ms. 

As for all his other claims, most are bullshit, or misrepresented. It's sad to see HaXe misrepresented by a AS3 fanboy, but he's not going to give up.

--Matthew Spencer
--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


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http://haxe.org

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