ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

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ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

John A. De Goes

I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar! 

http://haxe.bazaarware.com

Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging from parser combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to cross-platform Http interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with fellow HaXe enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by submitting them to the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.

Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal use. It's only if you want to use the library on a website, in a public application, or to produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do you need to pay a $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for any of your personal projects.

The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed "Commercial Open Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and publish them on HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated. This means if a developer abandons a library he created, you can take it over, and both you and the original author will be compensated.

Please consider contributing your own libraries to the bazaar, or creating better versions of the ones that already exist. Together, we can create a rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for JavaScript and Flash. A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that contribute something back to the original authors and the community.

HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server), with the help of libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog, client-side programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De Goes. Thanks to all of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe developers!

Regards,

John

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

Juan Delgado
Wow, that's interesting.

About the concept, I don't think I'll be part of the authors (who
knows), but as a user I rather have the opportunity to pay $5 and get
a problem solved than not having the option at all.

If you are going for your own license, I think you should formalize it
quite a bit more. For starters, it should probably be on the headers
of each source file or at least as part of the download. And you
should get some kind of lawyer to review it, cause the legalese is
very tricky (that's why it's always recommended using a pre-existing
license). I sure appreciate the "human readable" version but, if I'm
working as a freelance for another company, their team/lawyers sure
would need some license to read so they know what they are getting
into (ie: if I use GPL, they would need to honor it).

The website is nothing like I would expect for a project like this,
though. For example, I'm missing browsing the code and library
documentation on the website itself. Also, animations seem to be very
sluggish on my MPB.

Anyway. Interesting project and interesting to see if it gets traction or not.

Good luck.

Juan

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:03 AM, John A. De Goes <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar!
>
> http://haxe.bazaarware.com
>
> Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging from parser
> combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to cross-platform Http
> interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with fellow HaXe
> enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by submitting them to
> the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.
> Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal use. It's only
> if you want to use the library on a website, in a public application, or to
> produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do you need to pay a
> $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for any of your
> personal projects.
> The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed "Commercial Open
> Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and publish them on
> HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated. This means if a
> developer abandons a library he created, you can take it over, and both you
> and the original author will be compensated.
> Please consider contributing your own libraries to the bazaar, or creating
> better versions of the ones that already exist. Together, we can create a
> rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for JavaScript and Flash.
> A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that contribute something
> back to the original authors and the community.
> HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server), with the help of
> libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog, client-side
> programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De Goes. Thanks to all
> of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe developers!
> Regards,
> John
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org
>



--
Juan Delgado - Zárate
http://zarate.tv
http://blog.zarate.tv

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

Benjamin Dasnois
Hi,

10% back to the community? What is that? Elsewhat 50% to the author?
That means that basically the author would get $2.50 (~1.82€ today
according to google) a sell ? I'm not going to get rich, or hum... I
mean, not even pay my food nor my appartment with that anytime soon! I
would rather offer my library (because it's even worse if it's a
derivative).

Also, the website is particularly unusable for this kind of thing
(it's 'so-so' at the moment since there are not as much libraries but
when there will be more...).

As Juan said, you need a formal licence since you can't rely on
'plain-English' informations on multiple pages for legal things, and
some things already need to be clarified (does a derivative work have
to be published on bazaar? can I publish it somewhere else?).

Also, I don't think you should call it "Open Source" since in my
opinion, you are violating the "fundamental freedoms" numbered 2 and 3
(freedom to redistribute copies and freedom to redistribute copies of
my modified versions of the original).

Although this really is your right to decide what can be done with
your code, I think you should not call that "Open Source".

Regards,

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Juan Delgado <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wow, that's interesting.
>
> About the concept, I don't think I'll be part of the authors (who
> knows), but as a user I rather have the opportunity to pay $5 and get
> a problem solved than not having the option at all.
>
> If you are going for your own license, I think you should formalize it
> quite a bit more. For starters, it should probably be on the headers
> of each source file or at least as part of the download. And you
> should get some kind of lawyer to review it, cause the legalese is
> very tricky (that's why it's always recommended using a pre-existing
> license). I sure appreciate the "human readable" version but, if I'm
> working as a freelance for another company, their team/lawyers sure
> would need some license to read so they know what they are getting
> into (ie: if I use GPL, they would need to honor it).
>
> The website is nothing like I would expect for a project like this,
> though. For example, I'm missing browsing the code and library
> documentation on the website itself. Also, animations seem to be very
> sluggish on my MPB.
>
> Anyway. Interesting project and interesting to see if it gets traction or not.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Juan
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:03 AM, John A. De Goes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar!
>>
>> http://haxe.bazaarware.com
>>
>> Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging from parser
>> combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to cross-platform Http
>> interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with fellow HaXe
>> enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by submitting them to
>> the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.
>> Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal use. It's only
>> if you want to use the library on a website, in a public application, or to
>> produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do you need to pay a
>> $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for any of your
>> personal projects.
>> The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed "Commercial Open
>> Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and publish them on
>> HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated. This means if a
>> developer abandons a library he created, you can take it over, and both you
>> and the original author will be compensated.
>> Please consider contributing your own libraries to the bazaar, or creating
>> better versions of the ones that already exist. Together, we can create a
>> rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for JavaScript and Flash.
>> A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that contribute something
>> back to the original authors and the community.
>> HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server), with the help of
>> libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog, client-side
>> programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De Goes. Thanks to all
>> of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe developers!
>> Regards,
>> John
>> --
>> haXe - an open source web programming language
>> http://haxe.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Juan Delgado - Zárate
> http://zarate.tv
> http://blog.zarate.tv
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org
>



--
DASNOIS Benjamin
http://www.benjamindasnois.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

Michiel Crefcoeur
Nice to see that some haXers have joined forces to build something that helps organize the haXe community!
What would make this website really interesting is if it uses haxelib as the back-end so that it forms a rich GUI for what's currently http://libs.haxe.org/.
Then, the haxelib spec could be updated with a new commercial licence (with associated pricing and billing info) for those of us who want to see something in return for their hard work.
Only thing is: It goes a bit against haXe's nature of "everything is open source".

I would like to hear what the haXe bazaar team members think of this?

2010/3/12 Benjamin Dasnois <[hidden email]>
Hi,

10% back to the community? What is that? Elsewhat 50% to the author?
That means that basically the author would get $2.50 (~1.82€ today
according to google) a sell ? I'm not going to get rich, or hum... I
mean, not even pay my food nor my appartment with that anytime soon! I
would rather offer my library (because it's even worse if it's a
derivative).

Also, the website is particularly unusable for this kind of thing
(it's 'so-so' at the moment since there are not as much libraries but
when there will be more...).

As Juan said, you need a formal licence since you can't rely on
'plain-English' informations on multiple pages for legal things, and
some things already need to be clarified (does a derivative work have
to be published on bazaar? can I publish it somewhere else?).

Also, I don't think you should call it "Open Source" since in my
opinion, you are violating the "fundamental freedoms" numbered 2 and 3
(freedom to redistribute copies and freedom to redistribute copies of
my modified versions of the original).

Although this really is your right to decide what can be done with
your code, I think you should not call that "Open Source".

Regards,

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Juan Delgado <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Wow, that's interesting.
>
> About the concept, I don't think I'll be part of the authors (who
> knows), but as a user I rather have the opportunity to pay $5 and get
> a problem solved than not having the option at all.
>
> If you are going for your own license, I think you should formalize it
> quite a bit more. For starters, it should probably be on the headers
> of each source file or at least as part of the download. And you
> should get some kind of lawyer to review it, cause the legalese is
> very tricky (that's why it's always recommended using a pre-existing
> license). I sure appreciate the "human readable" version but, if I'm
> working as a freelance for another company, their team/lawyers sure
> would need some license to read so they know what they are getting
> into (ie: if I use GPL, they would need to honor it).
>
> The website is nothing like I would expect for a project like this,
> though. For example, I'm missing browsing the code and library
> documentation on the website itself. Also, animations seem to be very
> sluggish on my MPB.
>
> Anyway. Interesting project and interesting to see if it gets traction or not.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Juan
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:03 AM, John A. De Goes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar!
>>
>> http://haxe.bazaarware.com
>>
>> Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging from parser
>> combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to cross-platform Http
>> interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with fellow HaXe
>> enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by submitting them to
>> the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.
>> Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal use. It's only
>> if you want to use the library on a website, in a public application, or to
>> produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do you need to pay a
>> $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for any of your
>> personal projects.
>> The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed "Commercial Open
>> Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and publish them on
>> HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated. This means if a
>> developer abandons a library he created, you can take it over, and both you
>> and the original author will be compensated.
>> Please consider contributing your own libraries to the bazaar, or creating
>> better versions of the ones that already exist. Together, we can create a
>> rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for JavaScript and Flash.
>> A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that contribute something
>> back to the original authors and the community.
>> HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server), with the help of
>> libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog, client-side
>> programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De Goes. Thanks to all
>> of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe developers!
>> Regards,
>> John
>> --
>> haXe - an open source web programming language
>> http://haxe.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Juan Delgado - Zárate
> http://zarate.tv
> http://blog.zarate.tv
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org
>



--
DASNOIS Benjamin
http://www.benjamindasnois.com

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

blackdog-2
Hi Michiel

There are threads about this if you care for more info, but the bottom
line is that Nicholas has technical objections to the implementation of
haxed - a mostly compatible haxelib client and server. Those objections
are:

1. haxed uses json and http instead of haxe remoting
2. the file format is yaml compatible for readability not xml

It is possible to write a haxe remoting json protocol apparently, so if
anyone would like to try would be good - i don't have time right now.

The current version of haxed is moving forward for my own needs, e.g.
I've added a git backend repository instead of a sqlite database and
hScript scripting. Anyone is welcome to fork or add to it as they wish,
you'll find it on http://www.github.com/blackdog66

>From my perspective, the main point about haxed is it's for hosting your
own libraries, installation and deployment of your code to your clients,
much less about maintaining compatibility with the existing haxelib.

In the next few weeks, I'm going to make some video tutorials on how to
setup your own server, tasks and how to script the build file for
multiple platforms. To give you an idea, on server setup (once you have
a compiled haxed client binary you can do this)

haxed install haxed-server
haxed build haxed-server php

./start

(the build file leverages the task mechanism and creates the server
runtime in the current working directory)

if you have nginx, php5.3 and spawn-fcgi installed, that will start
nginx and proxy it to fastcgi php instances. Haxed comes with it's own
website (see attachment (query/ui)). (Here's one example of why a
production quality haxe/neko webserver in the distribution would be
really handy)

I'll have my own server going soon where I'll be hosting my own libs
with the default haxed website (see attachment) - my server is nodejs
using git as the backend - this will be self installing, for those on a
Unix derivative.


bd



 





On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 11:59 +0100, Michiel Crefcoeur wrote:

> Nice to see that some haXers have joined forces to build something
> that helps organize the haXe community!
> What would make this website really interesting is if it uses haxelib
> as the back-end so that it forms a rich GUI for what's currently
> http://libs.haxe.org/.
> Then, the haxelib spec could be updated with a new commercial licence
> (with associated pricing and billing info) for those of us who want to
> see something in return for their hard work.
> Only thing is: It goes a bit against haXe's nature of "everything is
> open source".
>
>
> I would like to hear what the haXe bazaar team members think of this?
>
> 2010/3/12 Benjamin Dasnois <[hidden email]>
>         Hi,
>        
>         10% back to the community? What is that? Elsewhat 50% to the
>         author?
>         That means that basically the author would get $2.50 (~1.82€
>         today
>         according to google) a sell ? I'm not going to get rich, or
>         hum... I
>         mean, not even pay my food nor my appartment with that anytime
>         soon! I
>         would rather offer my library (because it's even worse if it's
>         a
>         derivative).
>        
>         Also, the website is particularly unusable for this kind of
>         thing
>         (it's 'so-so' at the moment since there are not as much
>         libraries but
>         when there will be more...).
>        
>         As Juan said, you need a formal licence since you can't rely
>         on
>         'plain-English' informations on multiple pages for legal
>         things, and
>         some things already need to be clarified (does a derivative
>         work have
>         to be published on bazaar? can I publish it somewhere else?).
>        
>         Also, I don't think you should call it "Open Source" since in
>         my
>         opinion, you are violating the "fundamental freedoms" numbered
>         2 and 3
>         (freedom to redistribute copies and freedom to redistribute
>         copies of
>         my modified versions of the original).
>        
>         Although this really is your right to decide what can be done
>         with
>         your code, I think you should not call that "Open Source".
>        
>         Regards,
>        
>        
>         On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Juan Delgado
>         <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         > Wow, that's interesting.
>         >
>         > About the concept, I don't think I'll be part of the authors
>         (who
>         > knows), but as a user I rather have the opportunity to pay
>         $5 and get
>         > a problem solved than not having the option at all.
>         >
>         > If you are going for your own license, I think you should
>         formalize it
>         > quite a bit more. For starters, it should probably be on the
>         headers
>         > of each source file or at least as part of the download. And
>         you
>         > should get some kind of lawyer to review it, cause the
>         legalese is
>         > very tricky (that's why it's always recommended using a
>         pre-existing
>         > license). I sure appreciate the "human readable" version
>         but, if I'm
>         > working as a freelance for another company, their
>         team/lawyers sure
>         > would need some license to read so they know what they are
>         getting
>         > into (ie: if I use GPL, they would need to honor it).
>         >
>         > The website is nothing like I would expect for a project
>         like this,
>         > though. For example, I'm missing browsing the code and
>         library
>         > documentation on the website itself. Also, animations seem
>         to be very
>         > sluggish on my MPB.
>         >
>         > Anyway. Interesting project and interesting to see if it
>         gets traction or not.
>         >
>         > Good luck.
>         >
>         > Juan
>         >
>         > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:03 AM, John A. De Goes
>         <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         >>
>         >> I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar!
>         >>
>         >> http://haxe.bazaarware.com
>         >>
>         >> Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging
>         from parser
>         >> combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to
>         cross-platform Http
>         >> interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with
>         fellow HaXe
>         >> enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by
>         submitting them to
>         >> the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.
>         >> Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal
>         use. It's only
>         >> if you want to use the library on a website, in a public
>         application, or to
>         >> produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do
>         you need to pay a
>         >> $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for
>         any of your
>         >> personal projects.
>         >> The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed
>         "Commercial Open
>         >> Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and
>         publish them on
>         >> HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated.
>         This means if a
>         >> developer abandons a library he created, you can take it
>         over, and both you
>         >> and the original author will be compensated.
>         >> Please consider contributing your own libraries to the
>         bazaar, or creating
>         >> better versions of the ones that already exist. Together,
>         we can create a
>         >> rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for
>         JavaScript and Flash.
>         >> A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that
>         contribute something
>         >> back to the original authors and the community.
>         >> HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server),
>         with the help of
>         >> libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog,
>         client-side
>         >> programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De
>         Goes. Thanks to all
>         >> of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe
>         developers!
>         >> Regards,
>         >> John
>         >> --
>         >> haXe - an open source web programming language
>         >> http://haxe.org
>         >>
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > --
>         > Juan Delgado - Zárate
>         > http://zarate.tv
>         > http://blog.zarate.tv
>         >
>         > --
>         > haXe - an open source web programming language
>         > http://haxe.org
>         >
>        
>        
>        
>        
>         --
>         DASNOIS Benjamin
>         http://www.benjamindasnois.com
>        
>         --
>        
>         haXe - an open source web programming language
>         http://haxe.org
>        
>
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org

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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

Cauê W.
that is a very sad news, blackdog. I was looking very much forward to have haxed as the new haxelib standard! It must be frustrating after all the work you've pulled off.

2010/3/12 blackdog <[hidden email]>
Hi Michiel

There are threads about this if you care for more info, but the bottom
line is that Nicholas has technical objections to the implementation of
haxed - a mostly compatible haxelib client and server. Those objections
are:

1. haxed uses json and http instead of haxe remoting
2. the file format is yaml compatible for readability not xml

It is possible to write a haxe remoting json protocol apparently, so if
anyone would like to try would be good - i don't have time right now.

The current version of haxed is moving forward for my own needs, e.g.
I've added a git backend repository instead of a sqlite database and
hScript scripting. Anyone is welcome to fork or add to it as they wish,
you'll find it on http://www.github.com/blackdog66

>From my perspective, the main point about haxed is it's for hosting your
own libraries, installation and deployment of your code to your clients,
much less about maintaining compatibility with the existing haxelib.

In the next few weeks, I'm going to make some video tutorials on how to
setup your own server, tasks and how to script the build file for
multiple platforms. To give you an idea, on server setup (once you have
a compiled haxed client binary you can do this)

haxed install haxed-server
haxed build haxed-server php

./start

(the build file leverages the task mechanism and creates the server
runtime in the current working directory)

if you have nginx, php5.3 and spawn-fcgi installed, that will start
nginx and proxy it to fastcgi php instances. Haxed comes with it's own
website (see attachment (query/ui)). (Here's one example of why a
production quality haxe/neko webserver in the distribution would be
really handy)

I'll have my own server going soon where I'll be hosting my own libs
with the default haxed website (see attachment) - my server is nodejs
using git as the backend - this will be self installing, for those on a
Unix derivative.


bd









On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 11:59 +0100, Michiel Crefcoeur wrote:
> Nice to see that some haXers have joined forces to build something
> that helps organize the haXe community!
> What would make this website really interesting is if it uses haxelib
> as the back-end so that it forms a rich GUI for what's currently
> http://libs.haxe.org/.
> Then, the haxelib spec could be updated with a new commercial licence
> (with associated pricing and billing info) for those of us who want to
> see something in return for their hard work.
> Only thing is: It goes a bit against haXe's nature of "everything is
> open source".
>
>
> I would like to hear what the haXe bazaar team members think of this?
>
> 2010/3/12 Benjamin Dasnois <[hidden email]>
>         Hi,
>
>         10% back to the community? What is that? Elsewhat 50% to the
>         author?
>         That means that basically the author would get $2.50 (~1.82€
>         today
>         according to google) a sell ? I'm not going to get rich, or
>         hum... I
>         mean, not even pay my food nor my appartment with that anytime
>         soon! I
>         would rather offer my library (because it's even worse if it's
>         a
>         derivative).
>
>         Also, the website is particularly unusable for this kind of
>         thing
>         (it's 'so-so' at the moment since there are not as much
>         libraries but
>         when there will be more...).
>
>         As Juan said, you need a formal licence since you can't rely
>         on
>         'plain-English' informations on multiple pages for legal
>         things, and
>         some things already need to be clarified (does a derivative
>         work have
>         to be published on bazaar? can I publish it somewhere else?).
>
>         Also, I don't think you should call it "Open Source" since in
>         my
>         opinion, you are violating the "fundamental freedoms" numbered
>         2 and 3
>         (freedom to redistribute copies and freedom to redistribute
>         copies of
>         my modified versions of the original).
>
>         Although this really is your right to decide what can be done
>         with
>         your code, I think you should not call that "Open Source".
>
>         Regards,
>
>
>         On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Juan Delgado
>         <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         > Wow, that's interesting.
>         >
>         > About the concept, I don't think I'll be part of the authors
>         (who
>         > knows), but as a user I rather have the opportunity to pay
>         $5 and get
>         > a problem solved than not having the option at all.
>         >
>         > If you are going for your own license, I think you should
>         formalize it
>         > quite a bit more. For starters, it should probably be on the
>         headers
>         > of each source file or at least as part of the download. And
>         you
>         > should get some kind of lawyer to review it, cause the
>         legalese is
>         > very tricky (that's why it's always recommended using a
>         pre-existing
>         > license). I sure appreciate the "human readable" version
>         but, if I'm
>         > working as a freelance for another company, their
>         team/lawyers sure
>         > would need some license to read so they know what they are
>         getting
>         > into (ie: if I use GPL, they would need to honor it).
>         >
>         > The website is nothing like I would expect for a project
>         like this,
>         > though. For example, I'm missing browsing the code and
>         library
>         > documentation on the website itself. Also, animations seem
>         to be very
>         > sluggish on my MPB.
>         >
>         > Anyway. Interesting project and interesting to see if it
>         gets traction or not.
>         >
>         > Good luck.
>         >
>         > Juan
>         >
>         > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:03 AM, John A. De Goes
>         <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         >>
>         >> I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar!
>         >>
>         >> http://haxe.bazaarware.com
>         >>
>         >> Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging
>         from parser
>         >> combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to
>         cross-platform Http
>         >> interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with
>         fellow HaXe
>         >> enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by
>         submitting them to
>         >> the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.
>         >> Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal
>         use. It's only
>         >> if you want to use the library on a website, in a public
>         application, or to
>         >> produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do
>         you need to pay a
>         >> $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for
>         any of your
>         >> personal projects.
>         >> The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed
>         "Commercial Open
>         >> Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and
>         publish them on
>         >> HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated.
>         This means if a
>         >> developer abandons a library he created, you can take it
>         over, and both you
>         >> and the original author will be compensated.
>         >> Please consider contributing your own libraries to the
>         bazaar, or creating
>         >> better versions of the ones that already exist. Together,
>         we can create a
>         >> rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for
>         JavaScript and Flash.
>         >> A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that
>         contribute something
>         >> back to the original authors and the community.
>         >> HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server),
>         with the help of
>         >> libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog,
>         client-side
>         >> programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De
>         Goes. Thanks to all
>         >> of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe
>         developers!
>         >> Regards,
>         >> John
>         >> --
>         >> haXe - an open source web programming language
>         >> http://haxe.org
>         >>
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > --
>         > Juan Delgado - Zárate
>         > http://zarate.tv
>         > http://blog.zarate.tv
>         >
>         > --
>         > haXe - an open source web programming language
>         > http://haxe.org
>         >
>
>
>
>
>         --
>         DASNOIS Benjamin
>         http://www.benjamindasnois.com
>
>         --
>
>         haXe - an open source web programming language
>         http://haxe.org
>
>
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

Pimm Hogeling
In reply to this post by John A. De Goes
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 05:03, John A. De Goes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal use. It's only if you want to use the library on a website, in a public application, or to produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do you need to pay a $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for any of your personal projects.

The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed "Commercial Open Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and publish them on HaXe Bazaar.
What is the exact license text? I cannot find this on the website.

If I would choose to pay the fee, would I get the software under an actual, real, open source license?

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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

Michiel Crefcoeur
In reply to this post by blackdog-2
As a matter of fact, I have a JSON-based remoting solution that might come in handy.
I'm nearing the point where I will FINALLY release this code as part of some libraries.
Up to now, there's only a remote call handler for ASP because that's what we needed it for first.
I also need to check for the possibilities to make clever use of language features for transparantly working with proxy classes. Now, you still need to generate a proxy class.

I hope some of your efforts may prove their use so at least parts of it can make it into haxelib!

2010/3/12 blackdog <[hidden email]>
Hi Michiel

There are threads about this if you care for more info, but the bottom
line is that Nicholas has technical objections to the implementation of
haxed - a mostly compatible haxelib client and server. Those objections
are:

1. haxed uses json and http instead of haxe remoting
2. the file format is yaml compatible for readability not xml

It is possible to write a haxe remoting json protocol apparently, so if
anyone would like to try would be good - i don't have time right now.

The current version of haxed is moving forward for my own needs, e.g.
I've added a git backend repository instead of a sqlite database and
hScript scripting. Anyone is welcome to fork or add to it as they wish,
you'll find it on http://www.github.com/blackdog66

>From my perspective, the main point about haxed is it's for hosting your
own libraries, installation and deployment of your code to your clients,
much less about maintaining compatibility with the existing haxelib.

In the next few weeks, I'm going to make some video tutorials on how to
setup your own server, tasks and how to script the build file for
multiple platforms. To give you an idea, on server setup (once you have
a compiled haxed client binary you can do this)

haxed install haxed-server
haxed build haxed-server php

./start

(the build file leverages the task mechanism and creates the server
runtime in the current working directory)

if you have nginx, php5.3 and spawn-fcgi installed, that will start
nginx and proxy it to fastcgi php instances. Haxed comes with it's own
website (see attachment (query/ui)). (Here's one example of why a
production quality haxe/neko webserver in the distribution would be
really handy)

I'll have my own server going soon where I'll be hosting my own libs
with the default haxed website (see attachment) - my server is nodejs
using git as the backend - this will be self installing, for those on a
Unix derivative.


bd









On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 11:59 +0100, Michiel Crefcoeur wrote:
> Nice to see that some haXers have joined forces to build something
> that helps organize the haXe community!
> What would make this website really interesting is if it uses haxelib
> as the back-end so that it forms a rich GUI for what's currently
> http://libs.haxe.org/.
> Then, the haxelib spec could be updated with a new commercial licence
> (with associated pricing and billing info) for those of us who want to
> see something in return for their hard work.
> Only thing is: It goes a bit against haXe's nature of "everything is
> open source".
>
>
> I would like to hear what the haXe bazaar team members think of this?
>
> 2010/3/12 Benjamin Dasnois <[hidden email]>
>         Hi,
>
>         10% back to the community? What is that? Elsewhat 50% to the
>         author?
>         That means that basically the author would get $2.50 (~1.82€
>         today
>         according to google) a sell ? I'm not going to get rich, or
>         hum... I
>         mean, not even pay my food nor my appartment with that anytime
>         soon! I
>         would rather offer my library (because it's even worse if it's
>         a
>         derivative).
>
>         Also, the website is particularly unusable for this kind of
>         thing
>         (it's 'so-so' at the moment since there are not as much
>         libraries but
>         when there will be more...).
>
>         As Juan said, you need a formal licence since you can't rely
>         on
>         'plain-English' informations on multiple pages for legal
>         things, and
>         some things already need to be clarified (does a derivative
>         work have
>         to be published on bazaar? can I publish it somewhere else?).
>
>         Also, I don't think you should call it "Open Source" since in
>         my
>         opinion, you are violating the "fundamental freedoms" numbered
>         2 and 3
>         (freedom to redistribute copies and freedom to redistribute
>         copies of
>         my modified versions of the original).
>
>         Although this really is your right to decide what can be done
>         with
>         your code, I think you should not call that "Open Source".
>
>         Regards,
>
>
>         On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Juan Delgado
>         <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         > Wow, that's interesting.
>         >
>         > About the concept, I don't think I'll be part of the authors
>         (who
>         > knows), but as a user I rather have the opportunity to pay
>         $5 and get
>         > a problem solved than not having the option at all.
>         >
>         > If you are going for your own license, I think you should
>         formalize it
>         > quite a bit more. For starters, it should probably be on the
>         headers
>         > of each source file or at least as part of the download. And
>         you
>         > should get some kind of lawyer to review it, cause the
>         legalese is
>         > very tricky (that's why it's always recommended using a
>         pre-existing
>         > license). I sure appreciate the "human readable" version
>         but, if I'm
>         > working as a freelance for another company, their
>         team/lawyers sure
>         > would need some license to read so they know what they are
>         getting
>         > into (ie: if I use GPL, they would need to honor it).
>         >
>         > The website is nothing like I would expect for a project
>         like this,
>         > though. For example, I'm missing browsing the code and
>         library
>         > documentation on the website itself. Also, animations seem
>         to be very
>         > sluggish on my MPB.
>         >
>         > Anyway. Interesting project and interesting to see if it
>         gets traction or not.
>         >
>         > Good luck.
>         >
>         > Juan
>         >
>         > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:03 AM, John A. De Goes
>         <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         >>
>         >> I'm happy to announce the launch of HaXe Bazaar!
>         >>
>         >> http://haxe.bazaarware.com
>         >>
>         >> Check out a wide assortment of new HaXe libraries, ranging
>         from parser
>         >> combinators, to type safe jQuery wrappers, to
>         cross-platform Http
>         >> interfaces, to PayPal processors, and more. Chat with
>         fellow HaXe
>         >> enthusiasts, or sell your own libraries on the bazaar by
>         submitting them to
>         >> the HaXe Bazaar repository using Haxed.
>         >> Every library published on HaXe Bazaar is free for personal
>         use. It's only
>         >> if you want to use the library on a website, in a public
>         application, or to
>         >> produce a digital artifact that's publicly distributed, do
>         you need to pay a
>         >> $5 fee, which entitles you to royalty-free distribution for
>         any of your
>         >> personal projects.
>         >> The BazaarWare License is a new kind of license, dubbed
>         "Commercial Open
>         >> Source". You can create derivatives of any libraries and
>         publish them on
>         >> HaXe Bazaar. Both you and the author will be compensated.
>         This means if a
>         >> developer abandons a library he created, you can take it
>         over, and both you
>         >> and the original author will be compensated.
>         >> Please consider contributing your own libraries to the
>         bazaar, or creating
>         >> better versions of the ones that already exist. Together,
>         we can create a
>         >> rich library ecosystem that rivals the ecosystems for
>         JavaScript and Flash.
>         >> A library ecosystem of well-maintained libraries that
>         contribute something
>         >> back to the original authors and the community.
>         >> HaXe Bazaar is created using 100% HaXe (client and server),
>         with the help of
>         >> libraries and tools from Andreas Soderlund and Blackdog,
>         client-side
>         >> programming by Daniel Grad, and graphics by Matthew De
>         Goes. Thanks to all
>         >> of them for help making a better Flashden, for HaXe
>         developers!
>         >> Regards,
>         >> John
>         >> --
>         >> haXe - an open source web programming language
>         >> http://haxe.org
>         >>
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > --
>         > Juan Delgado - Zárate
>         > http://zarate.tv
>         > http://blog.zarate.tv
>         >
>         > --
>         > haXe - an open source web programming language
>         > http://haxe.org
>         >
>
>
>
>
>         --
>         DASNOIS Benjamin
>         http://www.benjamindasnois.com
>
>         --
>
>         haXe - an open source web programming language
>         http://haxe.org
>
>
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org

--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org


--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Launch of HaXe Bazaar

John A. De Goes
In reply to this post by Benjamin Dasnois
On Mar 12, 2010, at 1:50 AM, Benjamin Dasnois wrote:
> according to google) a sell ? I'm not going to get rich, or hum... I
> mean, not even pay my food nor my appartment with that anytime soon! I
> would rather offer my library (because it's even worse if it's a
> derivative).

No one's going to get rich off selling libraries. But Flashden demonstrates that when authors get compensated a little for their time, they maintain their libraries better. And from my point of view, paying the author a token amount is like saying, "Thank you, please continue your excellent work."

There are about 10 - 20 libraries that I'd like to use, but which don't exist for HaXe. I'd gladly pay $5, $10 or even $20 to use these libraries commercially because of how much development time they would save. I think a lot of people feel like me. $5 is not much if it can save you 1 day or 7 days or 14 days of work, and if that $5 helps support the author's work and the community itself, then all the better.

And here's the most important point to note: you can distribute GPL, BSD, or any other "open source" license on HaXe Bazaar. In other words, you don't have to use BPL. And it works just the same, with one exception: other people don't have to "buy" your library, the underlying license entitles them to use it regardless.

Even if you have open source libraries, I _still_ recommend distributing them on HaXe Bazaar so other people can easily "donate" money to you.

> As Juan said, you need a formal licence since you can't rely on
> 'plain-English' informations on multiple pages for legal things, and

There is a formal license written by Rod Underhill (a lawyer). I'll upload it after I finish editing it (its terms reflect an old payment structure that was susceptible to ripping the authors of original libraries off).

> some things already need to be clarified (does a derivative work have
> to be published on bazaar? can I publish it somewhere else?).

Not yet. One day, the license could support this, but it's complicated. If you author a library and publish it on HaXe Bazaar, and someone makes a derivative and publishes it on some fictional HaXeDen, then when HaXeDen collects revenue, they need to know about and be able to pay you. And if they don't pay you, or don't make the source code freely available, or don't do any one of numerous other things, their license needs to be revoked.

I'll extend the license "lazily", that is, if anyone wants to open their own website to host HaXe Bazaar libraries, I'll extend the license then.

> Also, I don't think you should call it "Open Source" since in my
> opinion, you are violating the "fundamental freedoms" numbered 2 and 3
> (freedom to redistribute copies and freedom to redistribute copies of
> my modified versions of the original).

The official name of the license is, "BazaarWare Public License". You do have (2) and (3), but only on HaXe Bazaar (and maybe in the future, other similar sites).

Regards,

John



--
haXe - an open source web programming language
http://haxe.org